False Advertising?? - PS Audio PowerPlant - Look at these Specs

[jay21112]

Disclaimer
I'm not hear to start a conversation about whether or not powerconditioning works or not, I'm here to talk specifically about PS Audio's claims on the capabilities of their PowerPlants.

History
OK, so my awesome girlfriend bought me an incredible Christmas present this year. On my wishlist I had a bunch of crazy things, and she actually bought a PS Audio PowerPlant Premier for me because she got an amazing deal at Crutchfield (she got it half off the retail price).

Now, I get the PS Audio newsletter and they just announced that they are coming out with two new powerconditioners that are "100 times better than the PowerPlant Premier." With a claim of "100 times better," I naturally HAVE to look (even if I think it's kinda fishy). So I start to look at the specs and I notice this, which absolutely puzzles me:

Question at hand
When I received the PowerPlant Premier I noticed that it said it's capable of providing 1500 watts of power. This was printed on the website and on the user's manual. You can still see it in the user's manual which is hosted on their website: In the Introduction section it states: The Premier will provide up to 1500 watts of pure, regulated AC power regardless of the condition of your home’s power."

http://powerplayadmin.psaudio.com/~psaudio/uploads/files/manual_power-plant-premier.pdf

However, the website NOW claims that this thing only produces 800 Watts of power: "By generating new AC, the Premier produces up to 800 continuous watts of regulated power at an efficiency of 85% with little to distortion or noise."

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/description/power-plant-premier_copy?cat=power

So my question is, which is it??? I noticed that the new Power Plants claim to produce 1000 watts (PowerPlant 5) and 1200 watts (PowerPlant 10):

"The PerfectWave Power Plant 5 delivers up to 1000 watts of continuous power and 50 amps of instantaneous current delivery"

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/perfectwave-power-plant-5?cat=power

"The PerfectWave Power Plant 10 delivers up to 1250 watts of continuous power and 70 amps of instantaneous current delivery"

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/perfectwave-power-plant-10?cat=power

So did they falsely advertise the power generation when the PowerPlant Premier was the only thing on the market, and now they are telling the truth? Or are they now lying about the output on the PowerPlant Premier because the next generation PowerPlants are on the market and they want to preferentially sell them (have you seen the price tags!!!).

I'm a little angry if the PowerPlant Premier only generates 800 watts. Can't a 15 amp circuit take like 1600 watts or something? So I would need 2 of these to be able to take advantage of all the juice on 1 circuit? I mean we got a good deal at Christmas, but WTF...I don't want to buy any more of these any where close to their actual MSRP! Especially because I'm not 100% sold on the fact that they make as much of a difference as companies claim they do.

So, let me know what you think about all this...

 

[markw]

"Better" is a subjective term.

What aspects do they claim are "100% better"? IF they don't point to any particular aspect, then they are within the law.

Unless they claim something directly it can be seen as puffery which is not illegal. Misleading, yes, but illegal? No.

 

[jay21112]

What aspects do they claim are "100% better"? IF they don't point to any particular aspect, then they are within the law.

Unless they claim something directly it can be seen as puffery which is not illegal. Misleading, yes, but illegal? No.

Wait, you missed the question.
I'm not questioning the "100% better" statement.

My problem is how the PowerPlant Premier was originally advertised to generate 1500 watts and now the website says it only generates 800 watts. I want to know which is it, and why the website was changed from 1500 watts (which is still currently advertised in the manual) to 800 watts (compared to the 1000 watts and 1200 watts of the PowerPlant 5 and PowerPlant 10).

 

[highfigh]

Wait, you missed the question.
I'm not questioning the "100% better" statement.

My problem is how the PowerPlant Premier was originally advertised to generate 1500 watts and now the website says it only generates 800 watts. I want to know which is it, and why the website was changed from 1500 watts (which is still currently advertised in the manual) to 800 watts (compared to the 1000 watts and 1200 watts of the PowerPlant 5 and PowerPlant 10).

If they stated 1500W, it's probably a peak rating.

 

[RIaudio]

jay21112,

Thanks for the interest in PS Audio products, you're lucky to have such a generous girlfriend. For transparency sake, I help manage PR for the company.

Regarding capabilities of the gear you mention:

The 100% "better" should read 100x lower output impedance, since lower output impedance means better performance. As @highfigh correctly states, the 1500W refers to the peak rating. The 800W, 1000W,and 1200W refer to the continuous power rating with the Premier and P5 reaching 50 amp peaks and the P10 reaching 70 amp peaks.

To specifically answer your main question, the Premier will do 800 watts continuously with 50 amp peaks. It was always able to do 1500 watts peak and still can.

PS Audio is shifting to a consistent measurement and rating system for all power products and in the process of updating the website and other collateral. Sorry for the confusion.

Nick

 

[audiofox]

jay21112,

Thanks for the interest in PS Audio products, you're lucky to have such a generous girlfriend. For transparency sake, I help manage PR for the company.

Regarding capabilities of the gear you mention:

The 100% "better" should read 100x lower output impedance, since lower output impedance means better performance. As @highfigh correctly states, the 1500W refers to the peak rating. The 800W, 1000W,and 1200W refer to the continuous power rating with the Premier and P5 reaching 50 amp peaks and the P10 reaching 70 amp peaks.

To specifically answer your main question, the Premier will do 800 watts continuously with 50 amp peaks. It was always able to do 1500 watts peak and still can.

PS Audio is shifting to a consistent measurement and rating system for all power products and in the process of updating the website and other collateral. Sorry for the confusion.

Nick

50 amps @ 120V and the AC current produced @ 120v for a 1500 watt peak power rating (ie, 12.5A @ 120V) are not the same current levels-can you elaborate? Also, what is the duration at which you test your units for the 50/70 A current spike or the 1500 watt rating? Finally, what was the characteristic impedance (input or output), how much lower is it now and what performance parameter improved as a result of that lower impedance? I already read the manual and visited the web site, but I didn't see any answers to these questions.

 

[RIaudio]

audiofox,

I apologize for my lack of knowledge, but as the PR rep, I don't have the background to answer your questions completely.

The only thing I can say that's relative is that the 50 amps peak current is on a cycle by cycle basis and it's how they manage to get a clean sine wave when driving a tough load, but I really can't speak with any authority on the characteristic impedance or performance parameters.

If you want a better source, you can pursue additional information from PS Audio engineers and others with a better grasp of this technology on the PS Audio forums: psaudio(dot)com/ps/forum

Sorry I couldn't help more.

50 amps @ 120V and the AC current produced @ 120v for a 1500 watt peak power rating (ie, 12.5A @ 120V) are not the same current levels-can you elaborate? Also, what is the duration at which you test your units for the 50/70 A current spike or the 1500 watt rating? Finally, what was the characteristic impedance (input or output), how much lower is it now and what performance parameter improved as a result of that lower impedance? I already read the manual and visited the web site, but I didn't see any answers to these questions.

 

[jay21112]

jay21112,

Thanks for the interest in PS Audio products, you're lucky to have such a generous girlfriend. For transparency sake, I help manage PR for the company.

Regarding capabilities of the gear you mention:

The 100% "better" should read 100x lower output impedance, since lower output impedance means better performance. As @highfigh correctly states, the 1500W refers to the peak rating. The 800W, 1000W,and 1200W refer to the continuous power rating with the Premier and P5 reaching 50 amp peaks and the P10 reaching 70 amp peaks.

To specifically answer your main question, the Premier will do 800 watts continuously with 50 amp peaks. It was always able to do 1500 watts peak and still can.

PS Audio is shifting to a consistent measurement and rating system for all power products and in the process of updating the website and other collateral. Sorry for the confusion.

Nick

Yeah, she's a great gal. She got an ipad and a TV though, so santa was good to her too.

The 1500 peak makes sense, and so does the updating for consistency. But I am still a little upset because when the Premier was the only thing going on the market, all the PS Audio advertising made it sound like the 1500 was it's continuous load, and that it could basically handle the full load of a 15amp circuit.

And now that the new products are out, the advertising changes to show that what originally seemed like 1500 continuous is really 800 continuous. So if the current advertising is correct, then it was actually the original advertising which was, at least, misleading.

 

[markw]

Thanks for following this through to a conclusion, and even more thanks for sharing your findings with us.

I must also thank RIaudio for stepping up to bat here.

Having to justify the marketing departments claims with only the bare facts from the engineering department can be a thankless task. Dilbert teaches us this on an almost daily basis.

 

[jp_over]

Yet another reason I enjoy this forum so much - direct responses from the folks making the products.