wiring

[mortonconst]

what is the difference in sound if a "balanced" connection is used VS. and unbalanced?

I am going to upgrade to a pre-pro from my rx v661 and i want to know if i should ignore models that do not have balanced out puts.

samsung 60" c6300 led
samsung 6500 blu ray
yamaha rx v661
emotiva xpa 5
def tech bp6300 front
def tech CLR 2300 center
def tech uiw bpa rear surround
dual emotiva ultra 10 subs

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Most of the time, you won't notice any difference whatsoever.

I would not sweat it. It's not worth the money IMO.

 

[mortonconst]

ok. here is another question that i have been trying to get answered...what is MPCM and what is LPCM????

 

[Pyrrho]

ok. here is another question that i have been trying to get answered...what is MPCM and what is LPCM????

LPCM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_pulse-code_modulation

MPCM is Multichannel PCM. PCM is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-code_modulation

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

PCM is a Digital Signal that goes from the player to the AVR or processor via HDMI cable.

PCM can carry high-definition audio signal bandwidth.

It cannot travel through an RCA type cable or optical/coaxial digital cable.

 

[Pyrrho]

PCM is a Digital Signal that goes from the player to the AVR or processor via HDMI cable.

PCM can carry high-definition audio signal bandwidth.

It cannot travel through an RCA type cable or optical/coaxial digital cable.

That isn't quite correct. CDs use PCM, and the signal on a CD can pass through an optical or coaxial cable. MPCM, however, cannot.

 

[oppman99]

morton,

There can be a difference, but in most cases only if all of your gear has balnced circuitry from input to output stage. Not all gear that has XLR connections is balanced. Your XPA-5 has XLR inputs, but not balanced circuts so as acudeftechguy said, you probably won't notice a difference. That being said, I do notice a difference in clarity using XLR connections (but my gear is fully balanced).

 

[mortonconst]

thank you all for your input. i understand how MPCM works....i think....so when my rx v661 says "MPCM" on the front of it while i am playing something on my blu ray player (lets say a dts hd 5.1 track) it means that the blu ray player is decoding the dts HD track into 6 signals and then sending those 6 signals through the hdmi cable to the rx v661 and then rx v661 is basically allowing the 6 individual signals from the blu ray player to "pass through untouched" to my amp and then to my speakers....so basically, the rx v661 is only acting as a volume control and an individual speaker level control. right??? so does that mean that i would be hearing "dts hd" the same as if my yamaha decoded dts hd?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

thank you all for your input. i understand how MPCM works....i think....so when my rx v661 says "MPCM" on the front of it while i am playing something on my blu ray player (lets say a dts hd 5.1 track) it means that the blu ray player is decoding the dts HD track into 6 signals and then sending those 6 signals through the hdmi cable to the rx v661 and then rx v661 is basically allowing the 6 individual signals from the blu ray player to "pass through untouched" to my amp and then to my speakers....so basically, the rx v661 is only acting as a volume control and an individual speaker level control. right??? so does that mean that i would be hearing "dts hd" the same as if my yamaha decoded dts hd?

The BD player decodes DTS HD and converts it into PCM.

The PCM is sent to your AVR.

Your AVR converts the PCM to Analog (DAC or digital-to-analog converter) and sends it to the amp and then to your speakers.

Theoretically, PCM from DTS HD or TrueHD should sound the same as bitstream from DTS HD & TrueHD.

However, some people feel that the bitstream sounds better. It also depends on the capability of the decoders (BD vs AVR, PC vs AVR, etc.).

I think bitstream sounds better than PCM. That is my experience.

 

[Pyrrho]

thank you all for your input. i understand how MPCM works....i think....so when my rx v661 says "MPCM" on the front of it while i am playing something on my blu ray player (lets say a dts hd 5.1 track) it means that the blu ray player is decoding the dts HD track into 6 signals and then sending those 6 signals through the hdmi cable to the rx v661 and then rx v661 is basically allowing the 6 individual signals from the blu ray player to "pass through untouched" to my amp and then to my speakers....so basically, the rx v661 is only acting as a volume control and an individual speaker level control. right??? so does that mean that i would be hearing "dts hd" the same as if my yamaha decoded dts hd?

Yes, that is correct. Unless, of course, one of the processors or convertors screwed it up due to gross incompetence of the manufacturer. But most of the time, people have not properly tested the outcome in their systems, and therefore we may dismiss what they say as being due to lack of level matching, etc.

 

[TLS Guy]

what is the difference in sound if a "balanced" connection is used VS. and unbalanced?

I am going to upgrade to a pre-pro from my rx v661 and i want to know if i should ignore models that do not have balanced out puts.

samsung 60" c6300 led
samsung 6500 blu ray
yamaha rx v661
emotiva xpa 5
def tech bp6300 front
def tech CLR 2300 center
def tech uiw bpa rear surround
dual emotiva ultra 10 subs

Balanced connections have advantages with reduced noise for long cable runs, not usually encountered in the home environment. In short runs balanced connections often cause more problems than they solve.

 

[mortonconst]

i tired a couple of different things last night. while watching a blu ray in PCM it sounded the same as bitstream. however, when i watch a dvd in PCM it is "quieter" than bitstream.

any thoughts...

also, some of my blu rays have the audio as PCM un-compressed as well as dolby true HD....which do you think is better?

 

[mortonconst]

one other thing....i was looking at the yamaha rx v667....considering all of the talk about PCM and such....the rx v667 decodes dts HD and dolby true HD.....would that be an upgrade for me if i am already "hearing" those formats with my rx v661 via PCM??????

what will the rx v667 offer me in regards to video processing that my rx v661 does not????

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

one other thing....i was looking at the yamaha rx v667....considering all of the talk about PCM and such....the rx v667 decodes dts HD and dolby true HD.....would that be an upgrade for me if i am already "hearing" those formats with my rx v661 via PCM??????

what will the rx v667 offer me in regards to video processing that my rx v661 does not????

I prefer bitstream and see the LCD on my pre-pro read "DTS-HD MASTER" or "DOLBY TRUEHD". It is a guarantee that what I'm hearing is IN FACT DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD.

When it's PCM, sometimes it not really TrueHD or DTS-HD because of certain default settings and such. Anything can be "PCM".

Which is better? It depends on how they were encoded/recorded. Theorectically, they should all sound the same. But I personally prefer DTS-HD MA.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

i tired a couple of different things last night. while watching a blu ray in PCM it sounded the same as bitstream. however, when i watch a dvd in PCM it is "quieter" than bitstream.

any thoughts...

That is one reason why some people prefer bitstream over PCM. For some reason, the bitstream just "seems" more "dynamic" or maybe just "louder".

 

[Pyrrho]

i tired a couple of different things last night. while watching a blu ray in PCM it sounded the same as bitstream. however, when i watch a dvd in PCM it is "quieter" than bitstream.

any thoughts...

also, some of my blu rays have the audio as PCM un-compressed as well as dolby true HD....which do you think is better?

If you mean the output setting on your BD player, changing it from bitstream (which outputs whatever is being read off the disc) to PCM (which converts the bitstream of whatever type to PCM), there is no necessary connection between the output levels you will get from your system. That is, it could theoretically end up either louder or softer, but do not confuse that with better or worse.

As for the discs, PCM or Dolby TrueHD should sound the same, IF they put the same mix/mastering process into both. However, they are independent on the disc, and could be different mixes, so either one could in fact sound better than the other. Again, though, do not confuse differences in level (if any) with differences in quality. Most likely, if you level matched them, they would be the same in most cases. And most likely, if an error existed in one only, it would be more likely to be the one that is not PCM.

 

[caper26]

+1 at the "level matching" comment. One may sound better than the other when you switch tracks only. You would actually have to set up a REAL A/B test with level matching set up...etc...

 

[mortonconst]

ok so yesterday i bought the rx v667....now i get to "see" the words DTS HD.... i have to say that the OSD is great on the 667, the owners manual on CD is somewhat frustrating...i had to print a copy before i could start messing with settings....this receiver is 7.2...however, when i hook up a sub to each pre-out..i do not get any options to control them separately....any thoughts????
there is alot to learn about this receiver....i like how the picture continues to show even when you use pure direct...the rx v661 would not show a picture when pure direct was selected.

 

[PENG]

also, some of my blu rays have the audio as PCM un-compressed as well as dolby true HD....which do you think is better?

Both are lossless, but uncompressed means not compressed so it seems to me it is literally purer. It (uncompressed) does take up more space in the disc.

 

[TLS Guy]

Both are lossless, but uncompressed means not compressed so it seems to me it is literally purer. It (uncompressed) does take up more space in the disc.

A loss less format is just that loss less. After decoding the the program is identical to the original.

Now in DTS True Master HD and Dolby True HD, because of the compression algorithm you can get a higher bit rate recording in the same space. The DTS and Dolby codecs are usually at a higher bit rate than PCM tracks. Uncompressed PCM tracks are a waste of space with no added benefit, in fact a disadvantage.

Here you can download a CD in FLAC. This folder contains the instructions to decode the FLAC recording and then burn a CD which is an exact copy of my master. It is not inferior in any way to the original CD copies.