What choice to make

[ZEN]

This is my first post, I am an old audiophile, separate components including big Krell and Tandberg amps.

I want to set up that can use a Onkyo or Yamaha AV receiver to do dsp and format decoding. The problem is that the speakers that sound the best for the L&R front that I'd like to get are Magneplanar 1.7 full range quasi ribbon speakers that are a 4 ohm load. The spec sheets for the Onkyo and Yamaha models under $1000 don't even rate the spec for 4 ohms.

The Magneplanars are not real efficient, but the older amps I have can each put out at least 400 watts rms per channels 2 channels driven.

Question is can someone tell me of either an av receiver with a preamp out so
I can break out the L&R front signal from 5.1 and use my beefy amps or can the Onkyo and Yamaha do the job themselves and really put out at 4 ohms without sounding like junk and burning up?

For the surrounds I have m-audio AV 40 active speakers, so I don't need amps for that, I have a Polk powered subby and a Polk CS-20 center channel

So I only am powering 3 speakers out of the 5.1, I need to line out the rear L&R and subby.

What is your recommendation.

 

[jinjuku]

You didn't indicate a budget... What is your top end. I didn't want to assume $1000 or under just based on your post.

 

[walter duque]

Why not just get a Pre-Pro if you have enough power amps hanging around?

 

[ZEN]

Pre/Processor

My budget would be in the $600 street price but not to exceed $900.

I have not seen a pre/processor in my price range.

Can you give me alternatives?

Can they (pre/processor) hook into a computer for streaming of Pandora, Slacker and internet radio. May as well be up to date. I have a Sony Blu Ray and a wifi Samsung flat Panel.

 

[rnatalli]

Modern receivers in the same price range sound 98% identical run in pure mode, levels matched, and not clipping. They will sound different when you engage their EQ system. I personally like receivers that utilize Audyssey like Onkyo, Marantz, and Denon. Pioneer uses MCACC, Yamaha uses YPAO, and HK uses EZSet/EQ. I would try an Onkyo 708 as it has a pretty robust amp section and preouts just in case. An HK receiver may also be able to do the job as their amp sections are excellent. A lot will depend on how loud you generally listen to material. I wouldn't go with the Yamaha 667 or Pioneer 1120 unless you're planning to use your amps. I certainly would.

 

[ZeGhostbear]

AVR for pre-pro duty

In that price range I think it would be very hard to beat the Onkyo TX-NR708 which is the lowest Onkyo model to feature pre-outs this year. Use your existing amps to drive the fronts and use the 708 as a pre-pro and as an amp for anything else.

Fits right in your budget too. Newegg.com has it for $569 and Bhphotovideo.com for $549. Have ordered happily from both.

 

[rnatalli]

The 270 which is almost the same receiver as the 708 can be had for $479 from Amazon

 

[ZEN]

Have you heard of the Emotiva UMC-1? Its a processor/preamp e/w tuner. It sells for $699

I can't post link to their webpage because I am a newbee here, so just please do a search on Emotiva UMC-1.

Could you guys look that over and tell me what you think.

I am not sure if it covers the most important surround formats but I like the connectivity especially the coax and optical in/outputs.

I have an M-Audio EX66 (looking for a second speaker) it has coax digital and xlr balanced inputs. If I could find a second one I could use it until I can afford the Maggies. Its an active bi amped monitor speaker. Sorry for going off topic.

But the Emotiva UMC-1 goes along with a previous post that suggested I use a preamp with processing and my old power amps.

 

[rnatalli]

Emotiva has excellent products especially their amps and their service is top notch. However, every pre/pro I've used of theirs has been buggy as hell; the UMC-1 was no different. However, I know they've been releasing FW upgrades so they may have corrected a lot of the bugs I encountered some time ago.

 

[GranteedEV]

Krells are really high end amps. someyimes higher end have a lower gain structure to keep noise to a minimum but in effect require a lot of preout headroom to be driven to their limits. the problem with this is that entry level recievers may clip the preouts at heavy loads although it depends on the product. i would consider a processor or reciever with lots of preout voltage on tap. an old bstock marantz av8003 should definitely have plenty of preout voltage to drive the krells properly and at this point may fit in your price range. bstocks can be had at accessroies4less, an authorized marantz dealer.

beyond that i dont knowuch about the preout headroom of current recievers. my best bet would be the emotiva UMC-1 although their auto eq software is minimalist compared to the complex algorithms of an Audessey XT32 like you would find in a denon 4311cl

the marantz av7005 processor may be a good choice although i havent seen preout voltage measurements of it. it is the current successor to the av8003 and an excellent prepro otherwise. the site menitioned earlier may have one on bstock if you are patient and check regularily. new it might run you 1200 at a hifi shop.

that center channel and sub ight hold you back in the grand scheme of things. nice choice on the mains and surrounds though!

also, no the yamaha wont be bright. their current line of recievers supposedly went all out on audio circuitry so you may find it to he the right choice in the end.

onkyo aint my thing. i am irrationally biased against them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am 100% confident that all the AVRs in the same price class will sound identical to your human ears in direct mode (EQ, DSP, Tones bypassed).

Are those Maggies really "full-range" without a sub?

Can it really do 25Hz - 15kHz +/- 3dB @ 90dB/ 1 meter?

 

[ZEN]

Response on Maggies

Full range panels like Maggie this physical size can't out grunt a subby like the Polk psw 505 I got on a clearance for very little. That thing is almost as fast as my old Apogee Scintilla huge full range ribbon and rattles the whole house (and I'm not kidding)

The Polk center speaker has 6.5 inch drivers because I want special effects and lower midbass to come thru even at low volume settings.

I know Polk has low end garbage but this unit has ferro cooled tweeter and If I remember right some good materials in the bass drivers. User and expert reviews were excellent. For movies and TV viewing you can't go wrong at 50% off.
These are big box centers so bass should be aplenty. Hey I read so bad reviews of real expensive centers and this one is pretty expensive without the big discount.

When I listen to music I like just the stereo channels and good speakers, powered by good amps. I have a Conrad Johnson tubey sitting in a box since I moved I may make a patch panel to eliminate some of the techie gear just for music.

I wish I knew if the Emotiva folks have solved the issues. It looks interesting. Only thing its lacking is the link to online audio streaming.

Music in flac at a high bit rate sounds really good,
and the access to a vast library of music is awesome.

Thanks to all for making my first subject post enjoyable.

 

[The13thGryphon]

Receiver + Maggies = Trouble

Hi Zen,

Take it from someone who knows... Maggies need current! I own a pair of MG 1.6QR's, as well as the MG MC1's for surrounds. You will not be happy driving your Maggies with a receiver... Especially one in the price range you stipulate. The Magnepan speakers may not be as difficult to drive as the Apogee Scintila's (at least the original 1 ohm versions), but they're still pretty demanding of quality amplification.

Get a pre-pro such as the Emotiva, or better yet the Marantz AV7005. Your other option would be a receiver with preamp outs, as previously mentioned. Marantz makes a couple of units you might look at given that you could then use one of your big amps to drive the Maggies. Take a look at both the SR5005 ($799 retail, but I've seen it for under $600 recently) and SR6005 ($999 retail).

Both have preamp outs, Audyssey room correction, all the latest codecs, etc. You can find other brands that will have more bells and whistles (and gimics), but none that will sound better in my opinion.

Good luck to you.

 

[ZEN]

Henry, I spent some time looking up the Marantz gear. Pricey and the AV8003 has shortcommings and problems too.

Maybe the SR 6005 would have the same issues with HD formats and the latest EQ but at least its got amps and pre out.

Henry do you know the SR6005 RMS power rating at 4 ohms? I only see it rated at 8 ohms, funny I see many speakers rated between 4 and 6 ohms a thousand dollar recv. should have no problem with a load like this.

Also, how good would a reconditioned Marantz be sold by accessories4less, with a two year warrantee be?

 

[TLS Guy]

Henry, I spent some time looking up the Marantz gear. Pricey and the AV8003 has shortcommings and problems too.

Maybe the SR 6005 would have the same issues with HD formats and the latest EQ but at least its got amps and pre out.

Henry do you know the SR6005 RMS power rating at 4 ohms? I only see it rated at 8 ohms, funny I see many speakers rated between 4 and 6 ohms a thousand dollar recv. should have no problem with a load like this.

Also, how good would a reconditioned Marantz be sold by accessories4less, with a two year warrantee be?

If you can get a Marantz Av 8003 you will be fine. I have had one for nearly a year. It has superb fidelity and measures very well. I can assure you there is tons of head room. It will output 14 volts before clipping.

I would try and grab a new one, before they are out of stock.