HexOmega's sub recommendation thread...

[sholling]

Yes sir! That's why I try to recommended equipment that will work best for that individual and not just stuff I like or have owned.

This is a subject that I'm researching heavily for my own mixed music/HT project (which may or may-not happen) and came across this interesting thread on the Rythmik F25 from Emo's forum. Just based on single user review I've (for now) scratched it from my list of candidates. The writer seemed to have the same goals as I do. That doesn't mean it's not the be-all and end-all for music but it just shows that different audio nuts have different needs and expectations from their gear. I'll be looking forward to the review of the FV15HP and the Hsu.

 

[ntrain42]

ntrain42,

I've gotta admit, posts like yours usually irritate me...in fact, your first one does. You know, when one person claims that one manufacturer's product blows away the rest of the (well respected) market. Regardless, I'm still intrigued, and after all I am the one asking for opinions.

Yes, it's beyond my budget, and this is becoming a very slippery slope.

Honestly spending another $200+ beyond the SVS sub has me wondering exactly what you get for $856 shipped. The Rythmik F12 uses a $150 driver and a reasonably advanced amplifier. The Direct Servo tech makes sense but without hearing one and comparing it to other comparable subs I'd have a hard time justifying the extra money.

Can you at least point me towards some legitimate professional reviews where the F12 is compared to other subs in/around the same price range?

EDIT: Rythmik charges a restocking fee for non-defective returns? WTF is that? So if I don't like their sub that I had no chance to preview before buying, I have to spend buku bucks to ship it back AND get stung with a restocking fee...thumbs down on that "feature."

A. Rythmik has a 30 day "satisfaction" garentee. So I do not believe they charge a restocking fee. Quite honestly call them(Brian) up and ask specifically.

B. I know audioholics is doing a "pro review" on their ported 15" sub. Though unfortunately they only are taking measurements at just below compression point(which other than telling you max spl and fr is kind of worthless).

Is there actually a such thing as a legitimate pro review? 99.99% of reviews in the A/V industry are some form of paid advertisement. Finding a legit A/V review with 0 form of bias I find rather hard to come by. User review response, many times is not going to be any better(bias as well or lack of experience with products, or differing standards on what sounds "good")

C. Rythmik uses both a GR research driver and a custom spec'd aluminum DS1200 driver. Not sure which one you were referring to, but IMO the DS1200 is the better driver overall.

D. Rythmik subs are not output monsters, but for music they are very accurate. They measure very low in GD have a very low and uniform SD plot, and are very low in order harmonics. Very clean sounding sub. Even though it is a stretch a bit above your budget, Id very highly recommend you at least demo it. I've NEVER heard about someone complain in a negative fashion with Rythmik subs when it comes to SQ. This is their strength.

The reason why I recommended it above the other choices is your 80% music listening requirement. I myself am a musician who plays the bass guitar(among other instruments like a bit of clarinet, and sax that I dabble in with the extra free time here and there)and I really like and enjoy listening to music with complex bass lines and music with lots of low frequency content from artists like Billy Sheehan, Bootsy Collins etc.

 

[ntrain42]

This is a subject that I'm researching heavily for my own mixed music/HT project (which may or may-not happen) and came across this interesting thread on the Rythmik F25 from Emo's forum. Just based on single user review I've (for now) scratched it from my list of candidates. The writer seemed to have the same goals as I do. That doesn't mean it's not the be-all and end-all for music but it just shows that different audio nuts have different needs and expectations from their gear. I'll be looking forward to the review of the FV15HP and the Hsu.

Yep, Mike is a BASSHEAD. He absolutely LOVED that sub for music. But he didn't get the massive boom as he went from a high output ported sub(PB13 Ultra)to a refined sealed sub in the F25.

Kind of why you have to ask yourself what your priorities are and how you plan on using the product.

Myself, I like a good accurate sub and moderate amount of clean spl as well. I just don't try to get that in a single sub solution. So I run multiple subs in all my setups.

 

[Matt34]

Anyways.....back to subs actually within your budget. The Legend will probably be the output champ between the group but I have a feeling the SVS will be ideal based on the driver and amp used.

I would also look at some type of EQ down the road such as the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033, MiniDSP or the SMS-1.

 

[HexOmega]

A. Rythmik has a 30 day "satisfaction" garentee. So I do not believe they charge a restocking fee. Quite honestly call them(Brian) up and ask specifically.

B. I know audioholics is doing a "pro review" on their ported 15" sub. Though unfortunately they only are taking measurements at just below compression point(which other than telling you max spl and fr is kind of worthless).

Is there actually a such thing as a legitimate pro review? 99.99% of reviews in the A/V industry are some form of paid advertisement. Finding a legit A/V review with 0 form of bias I find rather hard to come by. User review response, many times is not going to be any better(bias as well or lack of experience with products, or differing standards on what sounds "good")

C. Rythmik uses both a GR research driver and a custom spec'd aluminum DS1200 driver. Not sure which one you were referring to, but IMO the DS1200 is the better driver overall.

D. Rythmik subs are not output monsters, but for music they are very accurate. They measure very low in GD have a very low and uniform SD plot, and are very low in order harmonics. Very clean sounding sub. Even though it is a stretch a bit above your budget, Id very highly recommend you at least demo it. I've NEVER heard about someone complain in a negative fashion with Rythmik subs when it comes to SQ. This is their strength.

The reason why I recommended it above the other choices is your 80% music listening requirement. I myself am a musician who plays the bass guitar(among other instruments like a bit of clarinet, and sax that I dabble in with the extra free time here and there)and I really like and enjoy listening to music with complex bass lines and music with lots of low frequency content from artists like Billy Sheehan, Bootsy Collins etc.

A. At Rythmik Audio, we stand behind our products. Our return policy is as follows:

* All returns need a RMA number. Please contact us before you return the product.
* If the product is not used and it is in a condition that it can be re-sold, you can return it within 45 days after you place the order.
* All of our shipments are insured. For damaged shipment, please notify the appropriate postal service immediately.
* All products carry warranty against defects as specified in the product information web page.
* Products needing service under warranty should be sent to us insured at your cost. We will either send a new unit or repair the returned unit, at our discretion.
* All other returns of non-defective units are subject to a restocking fee.

B. I suppose it is too much to ask for a legitimate product review from this industry; I concede...

C. The F12 with either driver is the same price. I therefore assumed that Rythmik incurs the same cost for both drivers.

D. I appreciate your explanation and justification. I would expect a sub at this price point to perform better than its less expensive rivals, and I'm glad it lives up to that expectation. But again, this is a slippery slope and I have a budget I'd like to stick to. If the Rythmik ends up making sense for me, I'll definitely try to get an audition in. Either way, thanks for your input

 

[HexOmega]

Anyways.....back to subs actually within your budget. The Legend will probably be the output champ between the group but I have a feeling the SVS will be ideal based on the driver and amp used.

I would also look at some type of EQ down the road such as the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033, MiniDSP or the SMS-1.

Thanks Matt. I'm leaning towards the SVS at this point because it satisfies or exceeds all of my requirements...and their VP/COO answered my email at 12:23PM on a Saturday

Those EQ devices will be on the short list once we move out, and/or I add a second sub. I appreciate the links, which have been bookmarked in my "Audio" folder.

 

[just-some-guy]

In all honesty, I bet a lot of stereo mains out there, even without a sub, can annoy plenty of neighbors in apartments.

i know mine can.

 

[ntrain42]

A. At Rythmik Audio, we stand behind our products. Our return policy is as follows:

* All returns need a RMA number. Please contact us before you return the product.
* If the product is not used and it is in a condition that it can be re-sold, you can return it within 45 days after you place the order.
* All of our shipments are insured. For damaged shipment, please notify the appropriate postal service immediately.
* All products carry warranty against defects as specified in the product information web page.
* Products needing service under warranty should be sent to us insured at your cost. We will either send a new unit or repair the returned unit, at our discretion.
* All other returns of non-defective units are subject to a restocking fee.

B. I suppose it is too much to ask for a legitimate product review from this industry; I concede...

C. The F12 with either driver is the same price. I therefore assumed that Rythmik incurs the same cost for both drivers.

D. I appreciate your explanation and justification. I would expect a sub at this price point to perform better than its less expensive rivals, and I'm glad it lives up to that expectation. But again, this is a slippery slope and I have a budget I'd like to stick to. If the Rythmik ends up making sense for me, I'll definitely try to get an audition in. Either way, thanks for your input

Be aware, all of these subs are better than 99% of the junk that is out there on the market. My justifications and reasoning are in reality nitpicking subtleties in many ways.

But based on such a small room and the fact that music listening is your preference, I made the recommendation that I did. That F12 is going to produce very accurate sound,has a nice small footprint, is simple yet classy looking, and it will have plenty of HT for a room that size with great useable extension down to 15hz. Its a bit over your budget but its worth a try. I consider myself VERY PICKY with sub performance and more important sub integration into monitors and mains. I don't buy junk(equipment I own includes Kef,Rane,Audiocontrol,Balanced Audio Technology,Wadia,Adcom,Line6,Rythmik,Spector,Audience,Alpair,Magnepan,Aragon,Ampeg,Integra/Onkyo), nor do I buy overpriced "golden ear" bologny like I used to sell either. Performance and dollar value is what drives what I buy for myself and recommend for others.

Also I just checked but Rythmik does have a 30 day return policy, and from talking with someone else they wont charge you a restocking fee as long as its in NEW resellable condition. But if it still is something you want to consider giving them a try call Rythmik and talk to Brian directly. I can all but garentee that if you do take it for a test drive, you will keep it. 18 months ago I was kind of in the same position as you. Myself being out of the AV business for a few years, with contacts for price accomadations drying up, I decided to give one a try for one of my critical 2 channel audio systems and it was literally the first sub that I felt gave a perfect cohesive blend into my monitors.

I believe there was a huge sub showdown on the AVS where alot of custom and DIY subs were brought together for a "sub off". And even though there were alot of subs with much bigger pricetags or massive "xmax"/magnet assemblies etc. There was the conclusion by many there that the Rythmiks SQ was at or near the top, even though it had a massive power and linear displacement disadvantage compared to some of the others. So heads up on that, I think the guy who hosted the party is under the name Warpdrv.

 

[HexOmega]

Thanks all for your help and input,

After some additional research and working with the vendors, I've just placed an order for the SVS SB12-NSD

Now I'll take some tips on how to contain the anticipation...

 

[rnatalli]

Now I'll take some tips on how to contain the anticipation...

Can't help you there. Be sure to post some impressions and pics when you get that bad boy.

 

[HexOmega]

Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention that I'm testing the waters with Blue Jeans Cable and ordered one subwoofer and two HDMI cables...gonna be seeing a lot of the UPS guy and Mail Carrier.

 

[HexOmega]

Just wanted to point something out in case any vendors happen to peruse this thread:

I emailed the "sales@" address of a few vendors to ask for opinions on how their product might work with my setup.

One company responded very quickly, on a Saturday no less, and provided very informative answers to my questions (over multiple messages) which included independent tests of their products by third parties. I ended up making a purchase from that company, as you may have read already.

Another company, who shall remain nameless at this time, has yet to respond to my email. Their failure to respond to my question definitely did not prevent me from spending my money on their product, but neither did it help. Understandably, many of the ID subwoofer manufacturers are small-time shops, this one included. But, why bother having an email-based support resource if it's not utilized consistently? A communication failure early in the shopping process leaves a bad taste in the customer's wallet.

Disclosure: I prefer email as a contact method because my work/sleep schedule makes it difficult to personally communicate with people & businesses during weekday business hours. If I didn't spend business hours of most days in bed, I likely would have called the above companies and this post (hopefully) wouldn't exist.