accurate, distorion free sub for music

[jp_over]

Howdy,

Thanks for all the help to those who led me up to this point!

After much research, I'll be ordering a pair of Salk SongTower speakers and a Salk SongCenter (surround is not a priority for now).

Here's the question/bottom line: I need a sub or two to complement the system. I plan on crossing over at 60 or 80 hz depending on what sounds best/works best for my room.

I e-mailed my top 3 vendors of choice (HSU, SVS, and Rythmik) with the following question:

What's your most accurate/distortion free/flat frequency response (for music only) sub for medium volume listening? I have about 2500 cubic feet in the living room but it opens to the kitchen (upping the cubic feet quite a bit).

Here are the responses:
HSU: Our cleanest sounding and deepest reaching subwoofers are the VTF-15H andULS-15. That said, our 8"/10"/12" subwoofers are excellent for music too!

SVS: Our most accurate/distortion free/flat frequency response sub for any program material is an Ultra, either the PC13 or PB13. The Ultra woofer is the cleanest and most dynamic we’ve ever produced due to its unique underhung voice coil motor topology which results in extremely low distortion and a very linear power response with extended upper frequency response.

Having said that, for music only (where the deepest bass isn’t a propriety) at moderate levels the SB13-Plus would be outstanding and may offer more flexibility in placement which can make a big difference.

Rythmik: One F15 is enough to fill that room with good accurate bass, especially for music.

I found all responses to be very helpful (they responded quickly too, less than 24 hours via e-mail). But, I'd like some common folk to weigh-in. For those with experience with these brands/subs (or others), would you care to share your own experience? My limitations are 20" x 20" x 20" (or very close to it - certainly, smaller is better) for size/WAF, budget of $1,000 - $1,500 + shipping, and a slight preference for sealed (size).

With these constraints, I think the SVS SB13, HSU ULS15, and Rythmik F15 merit further consideration. Thoughts? By the way, my current room is square but I move every few years so this is not a consideration (other than I can't choose / set up an ideal room). Also, placement is highly influenced by WAF.

Thanks!

 

[HexOmega]

What about a pair of Epik Legends? Seems like they should at least be considered given your other choices.

 

[jp_over]

What about a pair of Epik Legends? Seems like they should at least be considered given your other choices.

I haven't heard much about them but then I haven't looked for them much either. I'll take a look; thanks!

 

[Matt34]

My vote is for the Rythmik F15, add another later if needed. I had two DIY Rythmik 12" in my room and loved the way they sounded, they just weren't enough for my overly large open floorplan.

 

[jp_over]

My vote is for the Rythmik F15, add another later if needed. I had two DIY Rythmik 12" in my room and loved the way they sounded, they just weren't enough for my overly large open floorplan.

That's definitely where I'm leaning...

 

[sholling]

I wish you could afford a pair of ULS-15 because it's sweet for music. One might be enough but it might be close due to the attached spaces. I'm running mine in 3000cuft and it handles that quite well.

 

[rnatalli]

IMO, the Rythmik is the best sounding and it should fill that room without any problems.

 

[j_garcia]

I haven't heard the F15 but I have heard a F12 DIY and thought it was a very good sounding sub. I've used an amp from them also - good products.

The Empire does really well with music also. I am very pleased with it. I have a large room and it is a somewhat open floor plan, and the Empire has no problem filling it.

 

[ntrain42]

Rythmik period. There is no better sub at any pricepoint if accuracy for low to medium output levels is your main concern. I've done quite a few ID and B&M subs, sold em as well for years and the 15" Rythmik sealed subs are absolutely top notch. This is coming from a bass musician as well.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'd get a DTS-20

Although that may be double your budget. I didn't actually... check.

 

[jp_over]

Thanks for all the responses!

GranteedEV,

I'd get a DTS-20

Although that may be double your budget. I didn't actually... check.

Price aside, I think it falls just a touch out of my size specs since it's like 88" long!


Sholling - I'll be giving that sub (ULS 15) another look based on your recommendation. My plan is to use one and then add another later if I need to even out modes or don't have enough output.

 

[GranteedEV]

Thanks for all the responses!

GranteedEV,



Price aside, I think it falls just a touch out of my size specs since it's like 88" long!

<_<;

You have no imagination!

 

[jp_over]

<_<;

You have no imagination!

I've been accused of that at times. But I think I'd need to subcontract Criss Angel and David Copperfield to get this one even on the WAF radar (or perhaps, to keep it off!).

 

[ntrain42]

Thanks for all the responses!

GranteedEV,



Price aside, I think it falls just a touch out of my size specs since it's like 88" long!


Sholling - I'll be giving that sub (ULS 15) another look based on your recommendation. My plan is to use one and then add another later if I need to even out modes or don't have enough output.

The DTS is designed for LOW bass for HT, and its not great for blending upper bass into smaller towers/monitor speakers.

The ULS 15 is a good sub, but its not on par with any of the Rythmik 15" drivers. Its not even as good as the SVS PB 13 Ultra in sealed mode(I owned a pair of those as well). Rythmik subs excell at low to medium volume levels for music and HT. The HP versions will add about 3db of output as well.

Another nice feature of the Rythmik is that if you choose the XLR model, you can daisy chain em together(one master using the RCA or XLR input, the rest in slave mode using XLR connections to them)if you ever decide to add one or more in the future. The Rythmik subwoofers use a custom driver that features a very nice aluminum cone and motor assembly with an ultra low Fs of around 15hz. They are extremely linear and have no adverse sound artifacts. They will play down to an honest 15hz, yet are able to blend in seamlessly to small monitors at the 120hz range. Its one of the few large driver subs that has an honest 3 octave range. For music, the upper bass range is critical for an audiophile sub.

 

[jp_over]

Thanks for your input. My volume preference is definitely medium to low. I figure I can always add another if it's not enough.

 

[GranteedEV]

I've been accused of that at times. But I think I'd need to subcontract Criss Angel and David Copperfield to get this one even on the WAF radar (or perhaps, to keep it off!).

It's an avant garde TV stand

The DTS is designed for LOW bass for HT, and its not great for blending upper bass into smaller towers/monitor speakers

The DTS-20 is -3 @ 150hz. While the curve isn't as smooth as a direct radiator, it will blend fine with an 80hz crossover, especially if your processor lets you go 4th order. EQ will be necessary to smooth out its response but once you do it should have no trouble blending with any speakers unless you listen reach the mains' limitations at higher volumes while it keeps going. Even ported subs will have resonances around this region - no sub should be playing this high at meaningful levels.

 

[jp_over]

"It's an avant garde TV stand"

Completely missed that. I guess when I looked at it I thought it might stand on end like an SVS PC model.

From their web site "a perfect choice for ultra high end home theatre, industrial/ military/research facilities, commercial cinema, mastering facilities, electronic organ reproduction, and commercial surround sound recording/playback."

 

[ntrain42]

It's an avant garde TV stand



The DTS-20 is -3 @ 150hz. While the curve isn't as smooth as a direct radiator, it will blend fine with an 80hz crossover, especially if your processor lets you go 4th order. EQ will be necessary to smooth out its response but once you do it should have no trouble blending with any speakers unless you listen reach the mains' limitations at higher volumes while it keeps going. Even ported subs will have resonances around this region - no sub should be playing this high at meaningful levels.

The frequency response doesn't show everything. It does not take into account IMD,GD, order harmonic distortion etc. Products like the DTS-10,20 should be crossed over low. Products like this should be crossed over low to sound their BEST. Even if you cross over higher at say 80hz with a typical 2nd order xover your still getting significant information played at 160hz and higher. Even with a 4th order steep xover(which many people don't have equipped on their processing equipment) its enough bleedthrough to make a small difference. FUrthermore the DTS 10-20 are in reality meant for LARGE HT systems and serious output. They are big and heavy, not very elegant looking for typical HT systems. It is literally "pro audio" gear in every sense of the word. Not everyone is looking for that. And at the price of one of those you could get quite a few Rythmik subs for the same price, have much better more even in room response and the same raw output with much better SQ.

A smaller more elegant SEALED direct feedback servo sub like the Rythmik has excellent IMD/GD and very low THD specs at low to moderate levels and will blend in ALOT BETTER with smaller speakers into the 240hz range with ease, has a very small footprint and is very elegant in looks. And it will still give you an honest clean output of around 105-115db roughly from 20hz up in all but the largest of rooms. Its not a DB monster by any means, but its extremely accurate for bass and subtle detail.

 

[sholling]

The DTS is designed for LOW bass for HT, and its not great for blending upper bass into smaller towers/monitor speakers.

The ULS 15 is a good sub, but its not on par with any of the Rythmik 15" drivers. Its not even as good as the SVS PB 13 Ultra in sealed mode(I owned a pair of those as well). Rythmik subs excell at low to medium volume levels for music and HT. The HP versions will add about 3db of output as well.

The PB13 Ultra is much more expensive and per Rythmik the 15" can't keep up output wise with the Hsu and actually suggested two for my application. It also (per discussions with Rythmik) the F15 falls off above 80hz which is what the charts show.

 

[cschang]

It also (per discussions with Rythmik) the F15 falls off above 80hz which is what the charts show.

I think Rythmik now has a version of the amp or mod available that does not have this characteristic.