Speakers for 2ch music system........budget $1K - $2k

[zumbo]

Learn something new everyday.

I guess Hawaii would also have crazy shipping fees.

From Aperion site:
Aperion Audio provides shipping to Hawaii for a small fee (usually around $50 - $150). We typically use Pilot Economy Air Freight because it's very cost effective. Transit time is typically about one week. Please contact us to set up your order.

 

[cschang]

Here's a good chart for getting a sense of how deep some instruments can play:

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The lowest piano note is around 27Hz.

The piano is played in all types of music.

 

[cschang]

The lowest piano note is around 27Hz.

The piano is played in all types of music.

True...but playing that end of the keys is not common.

 

[krzywica]

Here's a good chart for getting a sense of how deep some instruments can play:

Dude the Contrabasson Assaulters is my favorite band. It has 14 members, all of which play nothing but Contrabassons at fortissimo levels.

 

[zumbo]

True...but playing that end of the keys is common.

Many current rock bands employ electronic bass frequencies. Korn comes to mind.

Heck, even the latest from Robert Plant has some intense electronic frequencies.

All of that aside, my sub is set to roll off @60. Believe me, if I cut the power off to the unit, to say the system is lacking would be an understatement.

Anyone here cut off your sub in 2-channel with any music source. I don't think I have to wait for results.

Anyone here cut off your sub, and run any set of mains STRAIGHT with any 2-channel music. Then, try 2.1. There is just no argument, unless you are listening to Barney and friends.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

unless you are listening to Barney and friends.

I think even Barney's voice is around 40Hz @ -3dB.

I think bass below 30Hz isn't for everyone; my wife hates it.

The fact is, life itself is from 20Hz - 20kHz.

And if you are NOT getting 20Hz-20kHz, you are simply missing out.

 

[jostenmeat]

Many current rock bands employ electronic bass frequencies. Korn comes to mind.

Heck, even the latest from Robert Plant has some intense electronic frequencies.

All of that aside, my sub is set to roll off @60. Believe me, if I cut the power off to the unit, to say the system is lacking would be an understatement.

Anyone here cut off your sub in 2-channel with any music source. I don't think I have to wait for results.

Anyone here cut off your sub, and run any set of mains STRAIGHT with any 2-channel music. Then, try 2.1. There is just no argument, unless you are listening to Barney and friends.

I am not exactly sure how your post relates to what cschang offered. In any case 60hz is over an octave above 27hz, and that is a huge difference.

Then I've recently learned that a lot of our ability to distinguish any certain instrument's music relies heavily on the harmonics that reside way above the fundamental frequency.

60hz would be about the frequency of the 7th string on a 7string guitar, when tuned the typical "4th" below. 27hz is way below even the open tone on the last string on a full sized upright.

 

[zumbo]

I am not exactly sure how your post relates to what cschang offered. In any case 60hz is over an octave above 27hz, and that is a huge difference.

Then I've recently learned that a lot of our ability to distinguish any certain instrument's music relies heavily on the harmonics that reside way above the fundamental frequency.

60hz would be about the frequency of the 7th string on a 7string guitar, when tuned the typical "4th" below. 27hz is way below even the open tone on the last string on a full sized upright.

Well, let me clarify. 6.5" woofers with a claimed spec of being able to produce 27hz is pointless to me. That spec means they make it there, not reproduce it with authority.

Particularly don't care where 60hz is on a guitar. I just know a 60hz slam(or higher) from the bass of my drum set is much better reproduced with a speaker that has the size to give the authority of what you would feel when I slam my foot down. 6.5" just can't, and ain't gonna do it.

There is a technical end of this, and then there is reality. Specs to me show the overall ability of the driver. That's great. It will reproduce 27hz. That tells me the driver should have no problem what-so-ever rolling off @60, and passing the job off to the sub. Very important spec, but certainly doesn't tell me it's ready to take on the whole shebang.

 

[cschang]

The fact is, life itself is from 20Hz - 20kHz.

And if you are NOT getting 20Hz-20kHz, you are simply missing out.

Actually, 20Hz-20kHz is just an arbitrary range that was chosen because that is what humans generally can hear. As we get older, that narrows considerably, especially if we have been expose to loud sounds. There is actually some information that exists that because of the use of headphones/earphones among the youth, that this range will be even worse with them.

 

[jostenmeat]

Well, let me clarify. 6.5" woofers with a claimed spec of being able to produce 27hz is pointless to me. That spec means they make it there, not reproduce it with authority.

Particularly don't care where 60hz is on a guitar. I just know a 60hz slam(or higher) from the bass of my drum set is much better reproduced with a speaker that has the size to give the authority of what you would feel when I slam my foot down. 6.5" just can't, and ain't gonna do it.

There is a technical end of this, and then there is reality. Specs to me show the overall ability of the driver. That's great. It will reproduce 27hz. That tells me the driver should have no problem what-so-ever rolling off @60, and passing the job off to the sub. Very important spec, but certainly doesn't tell me it's ready to take on the whole shebang.

I WAS speaking in terms of reality. You might have been too; that wasn't my issue. I just didn't see how it related to cschang's data point.

As far as technical, to get a bigger picture of a driver's capability, um I think there's a lot more to it, then of course, the speaker design overall with said driver will really take the cake.

 

[zumbo]

Actually, 20Hz-20kHz is just an arbitrary range that was chosen because that is what humans generally can hear. As we get older, that narrows considerably, especially if we have been expose to loud sounds. There is actually some information that exists that because of the use of headphones/earphones among the youth, that this range will be even worse with them.

Must be why so many old folks think a Bose wave radio sounds good.

 

[zumbo]

I WAS speaking in terms of reality. You might have been too; that wasn't my issue. I just didn't see how it related to cschang's data point.

As far as technical, to get a bigger picture of a driver's capability, um I think there's a lot more to it, then of course, the speaker design overall with said driver will really take the cake.

There may have been a misunderstanding in there somewhere. Oh well, enjoying the thread at the op's expense. It certainly has to be helpful.

 

[3db]

I do not listen to pipe organs or rap. To say any of these speakers, minus the NHT, can make it without a sub is crazy.

Not trying to start a flame war, I am just respectfully disagreeing.

All of those PSB speakers have 5.25" drivers. Are you nuts?

No way man, Just 6 shy of a dozen.

 

[3db]

I was listening to the 1812 Overture today with my towers set to full range and they played the double bass with authority and slam

 

[zumbo]

I was listening to the 1812 Overture today with my towers set to full range and they played the double bass with authority and slam

Your towers are?

Muppets double bass don't count.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I owned a pair of Canton Karats that sounded just fine full range for two channel. A sub was really pointless and just more work. The OP was looking for full range speakers.
Buy these.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/CANTKARAT795DCBLKA/Canton/Karat-795-dc-3-way-Floorstanding-Speakers-Graphite-Pair/1.html

 

[zumbo]

I owned a pair of Canton Karats that sounded just fine full range for two channel. A sub was really pointless and just more work. The OP was looking for full range speakers.
Buy these.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/CANTKARAT795DCBLKA/Canton/Karat-795-dc-3-way-Floorstanding-Speakers-Graphite-Pair/1.html

I dig that. 12" woffers in each. Sweet.

Placement issues would be my only concern.

I keep coming back and checking. Am I the only other one who finds the Cantons interesting? I am digging them.

Although you could get a pair of my speakers, or any other 1k pair, and a SV SB-13Plus for the same amount of money. Okay, I'm over it. Powered subs rule.

 

[havhon]

He guys.....thanks for the many recommendations and advice. Per your request, here is some more info......

My listening room is/will be my living room. I have yet to buy a house in AK. I will have a house this summer. More than likely my living room will be that of a great room variety. Additionally, I suspect my great room will have hardwood floors (w/ center rug). My last house had a great room that measured 16'x23'. My next home should be similar in size. The roof will prob be vaulted, but no cathedral ceilings. My listening style is 75% passive / 25% active. I want something I can crank while doing weekend chores, bumming around the house, or when I the mood; sit down and listen to a killer disc.

Regarding my musical tastes....it is vast. However, I have a good collection of bebop and cool jazz cd's. The majority of my jazz cd's are of the funk/70's/fusion variety though.....ie. Scofield, Herbie Hancock, the Meters, Galactic, Jeff Beck, Steve Kimock, the Slip, etc. Additionally, I have a good collection of jamband cd's such as the Dead, Phish, WS Panic, etc. I also like bluegrass, country, and some modern indie rock.....along with some good ol' *** kicking rock n roll.

At this point, I am not 100% sold on a pair of towers. I can be persuaded into getting a set of nice monitor/bookshelfs with a sub. I have seen the Outlaw before online. How well respected of an amp is the Outlaw?? Would a nice set of bookshelf monitors with a sub better suite my needs??? I found some nice PCMs bookshelf monitors on Audiogon for a nice price....PCMs peak my interest.

 

[havhon]

In my previous post, I meant PMC speakers, not PCM.