What preamp/amp for B&W 804di mains, HTM4di center, CCM 816 rears, and JL f113 sub?

[familiar1985]

I'm trying to figure out what preamp/amp to us for my planned system consisting of B&W 804di mains, HTM4di center, CCM 816 rears, and JL f113 sub? I did not purchase yet. Would like to get some advice before finalizing the deal.

I was considering using the Mcintosh mc 207 and using 2 ch to power each 804di. Or would that be overkill? Maybe mc205?

Maybe mc252 for mains and something else for rears? Or Integrate Pre amp/Amp?

Also what would be a good pre amplifier? Stick with Mcintosh?

It is important for me to have good 5.1. Very good EQ so i can EQ system to room and cut low frequencies of speakers around 80 to let the sub take over. Most importantly very good sound, this system will mostly be used for music so i want to be able to play just mains with sub and have it sound amazing!

I will appreciate any advice or opinions on setup. Thank you!

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm trying to figure out what preamp/amp to us for my planned system consisting of B&W 804di mains, HTM4di center, CCM 816 rears, and JL f113 sub? I did not purchase yet. Would like to get some advice before finalizing the deal.

I was considering using the Mcintosh mc 207 and using 2 ch to power each 804di. Or would that be overkill? Maybe mc205?

Maybe mc252 for mains and something else for rears? Or Integrate Pre amp/Amp?

Also what would be a good pre amplifier? Stick with Mcintosh?

It is important for me to have good 5.1. Very good EQ so i can EQ system to room and cut low frequencies of speakers around 80 to let the sub take over. Most importantly very good sound, this system will mostly be used for music so i want to be able to play just mains with sub and have it sound amazing!

I will appreciate any advice or opinions on setup. Thank you!

For your pre/pro definitely not McIntosh. I think for what you say you want it comes down to either Marantz or Denon.

You can certainly go with McIntosh amps. There amps are reliable, but you will play a lot for the name. I personally like the Quad 909 current dumping amps. They sound good, and are trouble free. However any good amp from a renowned manufacturer will do you fine. Just decide how much power you want to pay for. Avoid tubes, and make sure power increases significantly into a four ohm load versus 8.

 

[familiar1985]

For your pre/pro definitely not McIntosh. I think for what you say you want it comes down to either Marantz or Denon.

You can certainly go with McIntosh amps. There amps are reliable, but you will play a lot for the name. I personally like the Quad 909 current dumping amps. They sound good, and are trouble free. However any good amp from a renowned manufacturer will do you fine. Just decide how much power you want to pay for. Avoid tubes, and make sure power increases significantly into a four ohm load versus 8.

Which Marantz or Denon? If I'm going to save money I would rather do it on the pre and get a good used older model. Seems that something newer and better is always coming out. The analog features are most important to me.

If I was to use the Quad 909. Is it enough power for the 2 mains? I see there is one demo for sale for $900 on audiogon. I am reading that its 140w @ 8ohms. Would i need 1 909 per main and run them mono? Is there a 3 ch version you can recommend that i can use for center and rears?

 

[TLS Guy]

Which Marantz or Denon? If I'm going to save money I would rather do it on the pre and get a good used older model. Seems that something newer and better is always coming out. The analog features are most important to me.

If I was to use the Quad 909. Is it enough power for the 2 mains? I see there is one demo for sale for $900 on audiogon. I am reading that its 140w @ 8ohms. Would i need 1 909 per main and run them mono? Is there a 3 ch version you can recommend that i can use for center and rears?

Your speakers are effectively 4 ohm and the Quad will give you 250 watts per channel.

Don't buy a used pre amp. For your specs you need the latest.

This Denon.

This Marantz

For your needs the Marantz will be fine. I have the previous model the AV8003. I bought it last March and it has superb fidelity.

You won't regret Quad amplification. I own four Quad 909s.

 

[familiar1985]

Your speakers are effectively 4 ohm and the Quad will give you 250 watts per channel.

Don't buy a used pre amp. For your specs you need the latest.

This Denon.

This Marantz

For your needs the Marantz will be fine. I have the previous model the AV8003. I bought it last March and it has superb fidelity.

You won't regret Quad amplification. I own four Quad 909s.

So if i use 1 Quad 909 for Mains what do i use for LR/RR/C? How do you think the Quad compares to the mcintosh m252? One thing i don't like is that you cant bi-wire with the Quad 909 and you can with the mc252.

Also, which marantz? The link sent me to AV7005 is that right? The denon is really expensive.

Why do you say i cant use older model pre amp? Even if i buy it new? I have found that pre amps drop price in half after a year or two. I actually hate spending money on non analog gear. What are the features you are talking about that i need with the newest pre?

 

[zumbo]

1.4 to support 3D is the newest feature. Other than that.....

Get a friggin Yamaha Z7. It has plenty of power to get you up and running. Heck, you may find it just flat-out has plenty of power.

When I was searching for a dedicated pre-amp, already had my amp, I decided on the Z7. It has all the features needed(-1.4), and can be used as a dedicated pre-amp. It actually has a feature to shut-down the internal amplification.

http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=YAMRXZ7BL

Audioholics review:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/rx-z7-7.1

Measurements. Read this first!
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/rx-z7-7.1/rx-z7-measurements

 

[TLS Guy]

So if i use 1 Quad 909 for Mains what do i use for LR/RR/C? How do you think the Quad compares to the mcintosh m252? One thing i don't like is that you cant bi-wire with the Quad 909 and you can with the mc252.

Also, which marantz? The link sent me to AV7005 is that right? The denon is really expensive.

Why do you say i cant use older model pre amp? Even if i buy it new? I have found that pre amps drop price in half after a year or two. I actually hate spending money on non analog gear. What are the features you are talking about that i need with the newest pre?

With two channel amps you will have a channel spare. You can bi wire with any amp, but it is a waste of time. There is no advantage whatever to biwiring, it just wastes wire.

If you can get a Marantz AV 8003 that would be fine for your purposes.

You could use a receiver, but I wouldn't personally. I just don't like having redundant amps even if you can switch them off.

I really like Peter Walker's current dumping amps. I don't know a design more bullet proof. Components can wander 30% out of spec and the amp will correct for it. You get pure class A performance out of the current dumpers, without the disadvantage of high heat output and unreliability.

The Macs are well built but they are standard class A/B amps. Peter's circuit is pure genius. Every time you look at his feed forward current dumper circuits you stare pure genius right in the face.

 

[zumbo]

I don't mean any disrespect, and my intention is not step on the Marantz recommendation.

However, I purchased a $2000 MADE IN CHINA Marantz BD8200 blu-ray player. It has locked-up twice. It has had to be sent to the shop, two states away, twice. After 90 days this time, this POS is all mine. Marantz will not recognize the persistent problem, and I have even offered to give them more money on a trade. It's a no from them.

I will never, ever buy Marantz/Denon/McIntosh electronics again.

 

[zumbo]

If the receiver as a pre-amp is a no from the OP, the other product I was considering when I purchased my Z7 for a dedicated pre-amp was a Rotel RSP 1570. Just another piece to consider.

http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/ProductDetails.htm?Id=474

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't mean any disrespect, and my intention is not step on the Marantz recommendation.

However, I purchased a $2000 MADE IN CHINA Marantz BD8200 blu-ray player. It has locked-up twice. It has had to be sent to the shop, two states away, twice. After 90 days this time, this POS is all mine. Marantz will not recognize the persistent problem, and I have even offered to give them more money on a trade. It's a no from them.

I will never, ever buy Marantz/Denon/McIntosh electronics again.

I have three pieces by Marantz and have had no problem. One I have had for nearly 20 years now. A good friend had a son with the same preamp as I have and he has had with no problem for two years or more now.

Assessing reliability is very difficult. However I can attest to Peter's designs with over 50 years experience to draw from. He was always very concerned about longevity and freedom from problems. It is estimated that over 80% of the gear he designed is still in regular use and that includes gear made over half a century ago.

The newer Far Eastern built gear is a totally different issue. The West has lost it. Guys like Peter Walker who really cared about the product and the consumer, and not making pots of money are long gone.

The 909 is past of his "dumpers" still in production, sadly now built in China. However his designs are so bullet proof even they can't muck it up! I hope the 909 continues to have a long production life.

 

[zumbo]

I do understand that products do break. But, when I buy a $2000 TOP component in a category from a company, and it fails, twice, I expect better customer service than being treated like I purchased a $10 toaster.

I too have an in-service 20 year old component in my system. It's a Yamaha carousel cd player. From what I hear, carousel cd players are unreliable.

 

[TLS Guy]

I do understand that products do break. But, when I buy a $2000 TOP component in a category from a company, and it fails, twice, I expect better customer service than being treated like I purchased a $10 toaster.

You have a good point there. Fortunately I have had no need of their customer service so far. Although the dealer I purchased my units from, said they have had no issues of this type with them. I have had a very long relationship with that dealer and he would tell me the truth. May be the situation is different when purchased from a local dealer, but it should not be.

My biggest complaint about Marantz is that the complex manual is in pigeon English and close to Manglish in parts, which is in for a dig.

 

[zumbo]

I didn't care for my friends Denon(3310) manual either. He just had to get a different brand than me(for me to set-up) Read parts of another members Pioneer manual, and ran out of BC's.

 

[PENG]

If you don't need HDMI1.4, the RX-Z7 is probably the best receiver money can buy right now that can be used as preamp but why not use the amps to power the surrounds so you only have to spend another $529 on a powerful Emo 3 channel amp.

The 4308 should be a close second (the audio is a equal but the video is not) but you can no longer find a new one. Other than that the Denon 4310 is also a good alternative if you need more than 4 HDMI inputs. For separates, you can't beat the price of the Marantz AV7005 that is made in Japan. I am skeptical about it's audio specs but I took my chance and ordered one anyway because anything else seem too expensive for me.

 

[TLS Guy]

If you don't need HDMI1.4, the RX-Z7 is probably the best receiver money can buy right now that can be used as preamp but why not use the amps to power the surrounds so you only have to spend another $529 on a powerful Emo 3 channel amp.

The 4308 should be a close second (the audio is a equal but the video is not) but you can no longer find a new one. Other than that the Denon 4310 is also a good alternative if you need more than 4 HDMI inputs. For separates, you can't beat the price of the Marantz AV7005 that is made in Japan. I am skeptical about it's audio specs but I took my chance and ordered one anyway because anything else seem too expensive for me.

My AV 8003 met specs, so I suspect the AV 7005 will as well. It is a good unit, and the FM tuner is first class. I don't need a lot of bells and whistles, I just need something clean, that does not muck things up and the AV 8003 has done that. It does not cause any audio problems, and that's why I'm happy.

I'm just cranky and philosophically opposed to receivers.

 

[PENG]

My AV 8003 met specs, so I suspect the AV 7005 will as well. It is a good unit, and the FM tuner is first class. I don't need a lot of bells and whistles, I just need something clean, that does not muck things up and the AV 8003 has done that. It does not cause any audio problems, and that's why I'm happy.

I'm just cranky and philosophically opposed to receivers.

The AV8003 costs twice as much as the AV7005. I read a couple of reviews on it and the cross talk and SN numbers were excellent. I can only hope the AV7005 can come close to those numbers but there isn't any review out yet. The 8003 is expensive but seems like a much better deal than the Denon you linked.

There are two reviews on the SR7005 and the lab measurements in both reviews show disappointing numbers. The reviewers still rate the SR7005 top in terms of performance, but its SN ratio does not even meet the THX requirement. The scary thing is that the SR7005's published specs are the same as that of the AV7005.

 

[familiar1985]

The AV8003 costs twice as much as the AV7005.

About the same price!

http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=MARAV8003A

Which one is better deal since they are similarly priced?

 

[PENG]

About the same price!

http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=MARAV8003A

Which one is better deal since they are similarly priced?

I have ordered the 7005 but have not heard either one. On paper the AV8003 should be superior in terms of build quality and higher end components such as audiophile grade capacitors, copper plated chassis, high quality custom wound toroidal transformer, probably better DAC, gold plated inputs etc. However it does not have the latest features such as Audyssey multieq XT (actually the latest is XT32), HDMI1.4, and a few other things.

So for potentially the best audio quality I would opt for the AV8003 if the price is the same. If 6 (vs 4) HMDI inputs, HDMI 1.4 are important for you then go for AV7005. You probably should listen to TLSGuy, he owns the 8003 so he should know better.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have ordered the 7005 but have not heard either one. On paper the AV8003 should be superior in terms of build quality and higher end components such as audiophile grade capacitors, copper plated chassis, high quality custom wound toroidal transformer, probably better DAC, gold plated inputs etc. However it does not have the latest features such as Audyssey multieq XT (actually the latest is XT32), HDMI1.4, and a few other things.

So for potentially the best audio quality I would opt for the AV8003 if the price is the same. If 6 (vs 4) HMDI inputs, HDMI 1.4 are important for you then go for AV7005. You probably should listen to TLSGuy, he owns the 8003 so he should know better.

Peng I have not looked at the AV 7005 closely as I'm happy with the AV 8003. My speakers don't need mucking about as they are flat as pans. I only use the delay of Audyssey. I suspect that the OPs speakers don't need tampering either. By the way I don't believe most rooms need tampering with either. Eq is for lousy speakers (most).

After your comments the OP should probably snap up an AV 8003 before they disappear. They are an excellent unit. After all if you have decent speakers all you need is clean processing, minimal nose and distortion added and no change in frequency response, and that's it.

By the way my old Rotel unit was significantly inferior to the Marantz in many respects.

 

[PENG]

Yeah, he has some nice B&Ws. I auditioned the 804S some years ago. The dealer powered them with their B&K receiver at the time, 125W per channel I think, and the 804S sounded excellent with that AVR. They are not going to be anything like the 802D but they still sound better than some renown Canadian speakers such as the Paradigm Studios IMO. $1,499 for the 8003 is an incredible price. We don't get that kind of deal North of the border.