New WD TV Live HUB Review(s)

[BoredSysAdmin]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3990/western-digital-wdtv-live-hub-review
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/audio/WD-TV-Live-Hub.aspx

Not what I call overly exciting conclusion:

We have put the WDTV Live Hub through the paces, and it does appear to be an interesting product. Though it might not satisfy the large set of people clamouring on AVSForums or the WD forums, requesting new features and demanding fixes, it does appear to make for an ideal gift for the non-tech savvy friends and relatives in the upcoming holiday season. WD must be lauded for getting the user interface and media library aspect right this time around. This is sure to pull many consumers who are not aware of / have no necessity for features such as full HD audio bitstreaming, MKV PGS subtitles etc. Fortunately, for WD, these type of consumers are the bulk of the purchasing public. We expect the WDTV Live Hub to continue giving WD the success that the previous products in the lineup have provided.

Before wrapping up the review, let me enumerate the pros and cons of the WDTV Live Hub:

Pros:

1 TB hard disk bundled, enough for most non-tech savvy users' contents
HDMI 1.4 support plays most existing 3D content on 3D TVs
Expanded online services compared to previous generation product
Improved user interface compared to previous products in this lineup
Supports sync of USB drives and digital camera contents to internal hard disk through USB
Easy control of playback and interaction with the streamer through Web Remote and USB keyboards
TrueHD bitstreaming and WMA(Pro) decode work fully

Cons:

Many bugs existing in previous generation products still left unfixed
GbE port seems more like a marketing gimmick, rather than actually adding to the performance
Content can be transferred to the internal hard disk from a computer using the network only
Can't stream multiple HD streams from the Live Hub, though the specifications seem to indicate that it is possible
For a flagship product, WD should have tried to provide full HD audio bitstreaming / Blu-Ray ISO support / advanced media streamer features


The Live Plus is inherently capable of many of the new features of the Live Hub, as the main SoC in both products is the same. Will the new features be ported to the old product? Only time will tell. In the meanwhile, if you are already planning to purchase a WDTV Live Plus, it is better to put in some extra money to purchase the Live Hub. It costs less than the combined price of a 2.5" 1 TB hard drive and the WDTV Live Plus standalone. The end user will have to put up with some quirks of the WDTV lineup, but, based purely on the price to performance ratio, the WDTV Live Hub will be hard to beat.

 

[digicidal]

Yeah that doesn't even seem as complete as the Seagate FAT that I use currently in my guest room and when I travel... although the interface on the WDs is much better - the omitted features and bugs that made me switch when I got the first one (WDTV HD - before the 'live' came out).

Streaming features look nice but not allowing multiple concurrent streams seems like one of the biggest deal-breakers IMO - since if you can only stream to a single destination... just put one of the cheaper units there and pull the data locally - especially since the Gbit networking isn't capable of Gbit speeds apparently.

If the cost were 50% less though... it might be an interesting thing to test - but with the competition going so cheap and matching most of the feature set - hard to see these flying off the shelves any time soon.

Not to mention that it's actively cooled by a tiny fan... that's not going to stay quiet for long... they should have just made it 1/2" higher or so for a passive solution. This smells to me like something that was rushed out of R&D by upper management in order to hopefully grab some Christmas sales.

 

[krzywica]

I just started looking at the Sage products. They look to be excellent as they have a full backend software package that integrates seamlessly with the media extenders (not DNLA).

http://www.sage.tv/hd_theater.html


Here is an example of the UI when coupled with the backend software.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG4YsvPRfAU

 

[digicidal]

That sage looks very nice - much better than the WD even if it was the same price... for $50 less, it's a no brainer between the two.

dkane360 turned me on to this company... as soon as they get the Duo units in stock I'm gonna have to grab one and give it a try since I definitely would prefer to have all of my 1080p be local to the unit as I just don't trust my home network to remain stable enough to stream 2hrs of 1080p video without problems. But I would also prefer not to have to have a PC with 2 fans (although nearly silent ones) and 5 HDs in my cabinet.

Granted they're not really in the same price range - but the lite player is at least and provides similar features/performance.

I guess it's like most things in this hobby... many times a more expensive product is nothing more than marketing hype and might even be less functional than a cheaper one. But other times paying 200% more for something really gives you 2X (or 3X or 4X) the features and performance.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

That sage looks very nice - much better than the WD even if it was the same price... for $50 less, it's a no brainer between the two.

Let me slow your enthusiasm by reminding that Save HD Theater to work that fast requires it's own proprietary back end - SaveTV Media Center and it's not exactly free - $80 is a bit steep for software in world with so many freeware alternatives - MythTV, Windows Media Center (free bundled with most Win 7 boxes), Media Portal, Boxee, XBMC, Plex etc.....

 

[krzywica]

That sage looks very nice - much better than the WD even if it was the same price... for $50 less, it's a no brainer between the two.

dkane360 turned me on to this company... as soon as they get the Duo units in stock I'm gonna have to grab one and give it a try since I definitely would prefer to have all of my 1080p be local to the unit as I just don't trust my home network to remain stable enough to stream 2hrs of 1080p video without problems. But I would also prefer not to have to have a PC with 2 fans (although nearly silent ones) and 5 HDs in my cabinet.

Granted they're not really in the same price range - but the lite player is at least and provides similar features/performance.

I guess it's like most things in this hobby... many times a more expensive product is nothing more than marketing hype and might even be less functional than a cheaper one. But other times paying 200% more for something really gives you 2X (or 3X or 4X) the features and performance.

You will not get any more performance out of the Dune stuff. I have tested several different manufacturers that use Sigma chips (Dune, Popcorn Hour, HDX, WDTV, ect) and its all in the firmware. Firmware as far as ongoing proactive development and bug fixing from the manufacturer and a good community to help out when questions arise. I have tried the jukebox options for dune (Zappiti) and its nowhere near the performance or polish of what I see with the Sage. Also its not very customizable. YAMJ is awesome because its extremely customizable, looks awesome, and you can do all the configuration and library management from the back end without having the device on or sitting in front of it. However YAMJ can be a bit slow as all the content is rendered on the device as all the server does is essentially act as a web server with an xml database backend. The nice thing about the Sage is that it appears to render some of the content on the server, which is really nice! I plan on picking one of these up in a few weeks and will report back with a list of pro's and con's.

 

[krzywica]

Let me slow your enthusiasm by reminding that Save HD Theater to work that fast requires it's own proprietary back end - SaveTV Media Center and it's not exactly free - $80 is a bit steep for software in world with so many freeware alternatives - MythTV, Windows Media Center (free bundled with most Win 7 boxes), Media Portal, Boxee, XBMC, Plex etc.....

AFAIK you can get the SageTV HD300+SageTV Media Server for $200. ANd AFAIK its licensed per server not client so that would be a $50 total cost for software. This seems to be a perfect option in my case as I already have a central file server that hosts content over the network to multiple clients.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

AFAIK you can get the SageTV HD300+SageTV Media Server for $200. ANd AFAIK its licensed per server not client so that would be a $50 total cost for software. This seems to be a perfect option in my case as I already have a central file server that hosts content over the network to multiple clients.

To bad Sage doesn't support yet the Ceton TV Tuner (Quad Tuner CableCard)
$200 doesn't sound such a bad deal.

krzywica - We all wait for your review of the Sage hardware and software.


I read a review or two for Dune products. In general they are favorable but not without cons. Plus the interface look pretty outdated...
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/dune-hd-max.shtml

 

[krzywica]

To bad Sage doesn't support yet the Ceton TV Tuner (Quad Tuner CableCard)
$200 doesn't sound such a bad deal.

krzywica - We all wait for your review of the Sage hardware and software.

Sounds good man...hopefully in a few weeks!

I read a review or two for Dune products. In general they are favorable but not without cons. Plus the interface look pretty outdated...
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/dune-hd-max.shtml

The Dune stuff is slightly more polished than the Popcorn Hour stuff.....but where Dune loses out is the 3rd party apps department. NMT's (Networked Media Tank) have one of the best user communities I have seen for any product.

 

[digicidal]

Let me slow your enthusiasm by reminding that Save HD Theater to work that fast requires it's own proprietary back end - SaveTV Media Center and it's not exactly free - $80 is a bit steep for software in world with so many freeware alternatives.

Actually I just gave the manual a quick read through and it indicates that it does not require you to run the backend or WMC plugin software... it only requires that to use the Placeshifter functionality or use it as a MediaExtender.

Apparetly you can use it with a simple NAS share or folder share on a PC, or alternatively with USB external drives connected to it - all for just the hardware purchase price.

I think the thing that appeals to me the most with the Dune HD Duo is the fact that I can drop 4TB of drives directly into the component, and have it be fast without a network connection, but fit nicely into my rack - and (most importantly for me) power down when not in use.

I could easily setup a NAS at home, but I'd rather not have a computer that is always on (albeit at pretty low wattage in a NAS). I've already got 3 PCs, 1 Jukebox and 1 HTPC - but thankfully they all sleep perfectly. I've tried a few NAS boxes and even built a couple using opensource software and never had good luck trying to get a WOL, drive sleeping box functional.

Although I would have to admit that it's only been a very sporadic side venture thus far - and mostly done with spare hardware.

You are very right about the free alternatives however... that's what I'm using now is WMC7 with MediaBrowser plugin for 'beautification'. Similarly on my touchscreen jukebox I'm using W7 as well, but with albumplayer instead of MCE (which I highly recommend... it's the first piece of technology I've put in place that my wife considers an improvement rather than an obstacle).

 

[digicidal]

Sounds good man...hopefully in a few weeks!

The Dune stuff is slightly more polished than the Popcorn Hour stuff.....but where Dune loses out is the 3rd party apps department. NMT's (Networked Media Tank) have one of the best user communities I have seen for any product.

I have stopped by their forums a few times over the past couple of years - and I would agree that there is great opensource development underway. However, it seems that Dune is working hard to compete by allow direct user feedback and steering of new features, etc... through their main forum.

Now whether or not that actually translates into an accelerated FW development cycle or inprovements in their GUI, compatability, or system stability... that is another matter entirely, and one for which I have no hard facts at all.

Good thing I'm not in too much of a hurry - I'll wait a few more months and see what shakes out probably. But I'm also excitedly awaiting that review of yours, and the one dkane360 has promised to do when he gets his Dune HD up and running.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Actually I just gave the manual a quick read through and it indicates that it does not require you to run the backend or WMC plugin software... it only requires that to use the Placeshifter functionality or use it as a MediaExtender.

Apparetly you can use it with a simple NAS share or folder share on a PC, or alternatively with USB external drives connected to it - all for just the hardware purchase price.

It's interesting fact, but I thought it's the original SaveTV backhaul preprocessing is what gives it perceived speed advantage..

I think the thing that appeals to me the most with the Dune HD Duo is the fact that I can drop 4TB of drives directly into the component, and have it be fast without a network connection, but fit nicely into my rack - and (most importantly for me) power down when not in use.

This is actually might be very interesting, but like I said before from review, Dune current user interface is severally lacking....

 

[krzywica]

Actually I just gave the manual a quick read through and it indicates that it does not require you to run the backend or WMC plugin software... it only requires that to use the Placeshifter functionality or use it as a MediaExtender.

Apparetly you can use it with a simple NAS share or folder share on a PC, or alternatively with USB external drives connected to it - all for just the hardware purchase price.

The Extended mode enables the jukebox that is seen in the youtube video. AFAIK without the extended mode enabled you would use the siple browser interface that does not do scraping of content (cover art, movie/tv info, ect).

I have stopped by their forums a few times over the past couple of years - and I would agree that there is great opensource development underway. However, it seems that Dune is working hard to compete by allow direct user feedback and steering of new features, etc... through their main forum.

Now whether or not that actually translates into an accelerated FW development cycle or inprovements in their GUI, compatability, or system stability... that is another matter entirely, and one for which I have no hard facts at all.

Popcorn Hour has an extensive Beta Tester team which is 90% end users. I am one of them and we all test the alpha, beta, and RC software when it comes out and provide feedback directly to Syabas (Popcorn Hour Manufacturer). I'm not active on the Dune forums but I highly doubt they have such an extensive amount of end user testing, PCH has a LOT of Beta Testers, probably numbering in the hundreds. Still when you use any of these players there is this feeling that someone said "good enough" somewhere in the development stage of the front end.

Also I would highly recommend a network attached storage device as the main source for your media content. This becomes especially handy when you want to playback content from multiple locations, especially since you mention you have several other PC's. I've had a central server for years and can't imagine not having one, keeping all your media and documents in one place makes stuff easy to find and allows virtually any device to access the content.

It's interesting fact, but I thought it's the original SaveTV backhaul preprocessing is what gives it perceived speed advantage..

See above.

 

[digicidal]

This is actually might be very interesting, but like I said before from review, Dune current user interface is severally lacking....

Oh I wholeheartedly agree with that - it's definitely not as nice a front end as the Sage or PCH... both of which I actually find still lacking in comparison to WMC 7 + MediaBrowser (at least with the Chocolate skin).

Can't really fault them for that however (Dune either) since the really big boys like WD/Microsoft/Seagate/Apple all do the "Meh, it's good enough to make some money on it... we'll release fixes after we profit..." song and dance. For the little guys I think it's less of a choice and more of a necessity.

 

[krzywica]

I'm about to pull the trigger on the SageTV HD300......I just want to experiment with the UI a little when I get home to make sure its something I want. The awesome thing about SageTV is that the interface is completely identical on the PC and Extenders. So when I set it up on the server it will be identical when played on the TV's around the house.

 

[digicidal]

The awesome thing about SageTV is that the interface is completely identical on the PC and Extenders. So when I set it up on the server it will be identical when played on the TV's around the house.

That would be great since one of my only WAF-related obstacles I have is ease of use and consistency. I'm lucky in the sense that my wife doesn't really mind me having tons of gadgets crammed in every corner of the house - but she is really resistant to change (even encountered a little bit of resistance moving her from a Mac Mini to an iMac - just because it looked different from what she was used to).

If I could get her familiarized with one interface and means of finding the content she wanted in the living room as well as the bedrooms and office - then I could finally cut that $100/mo. umbilical cord known as COX cable.