ATI ATP8700 Surround Preamp Processor User or Listener Opinion

[artiechoke]

Hello,

I'm considering purchasing an ATI ATP8700 7.1 channel surround sound preamp processor. I own the ATI AT1505 5 channel amplifier and thought it would be great to own the matching surround preamp from the same manufacturer, made in U.S.A.

I cannot find any detailed reviews about the sound quality and internal workings of this surround preamp processor. I would like more information before I make my decision.

Is there anyone out there that owns the ATI ATP8700 or has listened to it? What do you like about it and what don't you like about it? Does it run hot or cool and is it well built for reliability of operation? What would you compare it to (similar sound quality and reliability)? Would you recommend the ATI ATP8700 to someone like me that is looking for a quality surround pre/pro with audiophile quality sound at a budget price (the one I'm looking at is selling for $995.00 brand new with a three year warranty)?

Thank you.

 

[GranteedEV]

Only if your blu ray player is an Oppo SE with the 7.1 analogue outs and even then it's not really worth $900 except for matching sakes.

A marantz AV7005 or Emotiva UMC-1 will give you much better, modern performance. The ATI is just plain dated. I mean it doesn't even have HDMI.

A modern processor should have room correction, HD audio decoding, its own DACs, bass management, and tons of headroom.

Otherwise it's just a $900 trim setting volume knob that either hurts the signal a little or hurts the signal a very very small amount!

 

[artiechoke]

Hi GranteedEV (thank you for the speedy response),

I found out that the ATP8700 does have base management (and analog base management on its 7.1 inputs). You can set the speakers to large and also send the bass signal to the subwoofer in stereo and multi-channel listening.

I found out too that it has two DVI Inputs and one DVI output. I've been reading that there have been a lot of problems with HDMI. What would be the downside of using a DVI to HDMI adapter (besides not having audio and video on the same cable)?

I would think it has its own DACS, but I don't know what kind they are (another reason I'd like to hear from an actual owner of an ATI ATP8700). For some reason, ATI does not have the user manual available on the Internet for the ATP8700. They have only published the user manual for the previous model, the ATP8500 (which has slightly different features and a smaller LCD screen).

I don't know if these factors, that I found out about and listed above, would make it a good surround pre/pro to consider. I'm wondering if there are any owners of the ATI ATP8700 out there that could give me their opinion on it.

I looked into the Emotiva UMC-1, which is made in China, and it seems that it has had some problems with its firmware. Have all of those bugs been worked out? Their price seems to be right, but I would really like to find a quality American made pre/pro that is a good value too.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

$995.00 brand new with a three year warranty)?

From Classic Audio Parts?

I've bought 3 ATI amps from them. They are great.

That pre-pro is very tempting. I bet if I offered them $800, they would sell it in a heartbeat.

As long as you don't need HDMI switching (hooking HDMI video directly to TV) and have your BD player do all the HD-Audio processing, I think that pre-pro will sound awesome!

I have 100% confidence in ATI products. They are awesome.

We are talking about a real-deal high-end world-class pre-pro here. As far as sound quality is concerned, I don't even think a $5,000 AVR can beat it.

It is outdated with no HDMI and HD-Audio processing, but everything else seems first-class.

And I think the build quality will also be first-rate.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I were not into HTPC and BD ripping and dual displays (73" DLP + Projector), I would get this pre-pro in a heartbeat!

I don't care for any of that room EQ or DSPs, etc. I don't even use that Room EQ stuff on my Denon AVP-A1HD or AVR-5308.

 

[GranteedEV]

As long as you don't need HDMI switching (hooking HDMI video directly to TV) and have your BD player do all the HD-Audio processing, I think that pre-pro will sound awe.

only if the blue ray player sounds awesome. As soon as youre in the analog realm youre only as good as your worst component. Id rather send my prepro lpcm personally
P

 

[artiechoke]

I'm kind of leaning more towards the ATP8700 only because it does allow for bass management on its 7.1 analog inputs, and in stereo, as well as allowing you to run it in bypass mode. This seems very flexible and could be a way of future proofing my audio/video setup by relying on a blu-ray player for the new audio codecs such as trueHD. From what I read, the DVI still works with HDMI adapters (for video).

To GranteedEV:
I understand that you could be passing an inferior sound quality (from the blu-ray player) to your preamp and speakers, but I'm sure they make high quality blu-ray players (with analog outputs) that have excellent sound quality (please correct me if I'm wrong). Then, if they come out with better sounding blu-ray players (with analog outputs), it will be less expensive to replace the blu-ray player than my av preamp.

To AcuDefTechGuy:
For HTPC, would using a dedicated HDMI to 7.1 analog converter switch enable you to connect the HTPC to your preamp? I guess what I am asking is what are the issues with HTPC that make the ATP8700 not a good choice?

I would still like to hear from an owner of an ATI ATP8700 about what they think of the unit regarding sound quality, bass management flexibility, AM/FM sound quality (and reception for pulling in stations), build quality (including DACs and heat issues if any), ease of use (menus, etc.), connecting blu-ray to it using 7.1 analog inputs (type of blu-ray used and sound quality), and converting the DVI to HDMI using adapters, as well as any problems they have experienced with the ATP8700 (since I have not been able to find any user information on the Internet). If there are problems with the ATP8700 (such as heat issues) and the sound quality isn't good, then that would be a deal breaker.

Thank you both for providing so much additional information and answers to a lot of my questions. You have both really got me thinking (and digging deeper) about the best approach for updating my current av setup (at a reasonable cost).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

From what I read, the DVI still works with HDMI adapters (for video).

To AcuDefTechGuy:
For HTPC, would using a dedicated HDMI to 7.1 analog converter switch enable you to connect the HTPC to your preamp? I guess what I am asking is what are the issues with HTPC that make the ATP8700 not a good choice?

Yeah, the DVI-HDMI adapters should work for just video.

You could connect optical or coaxial digital for audio to the ATP8700 or 7.1 analog to the 7.1 analog inputs of the ATP8700.

I have 2 HTPCs, 1 laptop, and 1 24TB NAS connected to my Denon AVP via HDMIs.

If I just had a single HTPC, it would be okay.

 

[artiechoke]

Could one of these 4x2 switchers allow me to connect an HDMI htpc and laptop and ps3 to the ATP8700 so I can get TrueHd with HD video without degrading the sound and video quality (using the 7.1 analog inputs and DVI to HDMI)?

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdmi-to-7-channel.html

OR

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI switch 4x2_7_1audio.html

I know the switchers come at a price, but maybe I can find a lower price somewhere and if the ATP8700 is as well built (with high end sound) as their amps it might be worth it (especially if I can get a lower price, as you indicated, on the ATP8700).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Could one of these 4x2 switchers allow me to connect an HDMI htpc and laptop and ps3 to the ATP8700 so I can get TrueHd with HD video without degrading the sound and video quality (using the 7.1 analog inputs and DVI to HDMI)?

The DVI input of the ATP8700 is only for VIDEO.

The HD Audio sound will have to be via the 7.1 analog input.

 

[artiechoke]

Originally posted by AcuDefTechGuy:
The DVI input of the ATP8700 is only for VIDEO.

The HD Audio sound will have to be via the 7.1 analog input.

Right, but the switchers I mentioned have 7.1 analog inputs and outputs.

The 4x2 HDMI Matrix switch routes both HDMI and 5.1/7.1 LPCM ( 8ch) Analog Audio for systems using PS3 which has internal LPCM decoding on HDMI.

The 4x2 can take the decoded LPCM from the PS3 (or Blu-ray) and convert to 5.1/7.1 ( 8ch) Analog Audio for easy integration with a 5.1/7.1 audio preamp (like the ATI ATP8700) with 7.1 analog inputs.

In addition, an Auxillary 5.1/7.1 ( 8ch) audio Input allows you to connect a second Analog 5.1/7.1 source to the surround system.

The switcher includes 4 HDMI inputs that can output to 2 HDMI HDTV displays.

So it seems like this solution would allow me to route TrueHD audio (via the 7.1 analog outputs and inputs) to and from multiple sources using the ATI ATP8700 and the 4x2 HDMI matrix switch.

I hope I'm making sense.

PS: I wasn't sure how to attach a quote of your previous post (with a link to your post) into my post. What is the best way to do that?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 4X2 HDMI Matrix Switcher with 7 Channel Output decodes the HDMI LPCM 7.1 analog audio and then can feed a 7.1 receiver or amplifier with 7 channel analog inputs. This 4X2 HDMI Matrix Switcher with 7 Channel Output would be the best choice for the user who has doesn't have HDMI 7.1 decoding equipment.

Gotcha.

So you could just feed the HDMI Matrix Switcher 4 HDMI inputs (like PS3, BD player, HTPC, Digital Satellite Box, etc.); set the audio outputs on the PS3, BD, HTPC, & Digital Box to PCM (instead of bitstream); connect one of the HDMI outputs to the DVI Input of the ATI pre-pro via HDMI-DVI adapter for just Video; then connect the 7.1 Analog Outputs of the Switcher to the ATI's 7.1 Analog Inputs, and you have both Hi-Def Video and HD-audio.

That sounds like a great plan.

Good thinking.

 

[artiechoke]

Gotcha.

So you could just feed the HDMI Matrix Switcher 4 HDMI inputs (like PS3, BD player, HTPC, Digital Satellite Box, etc.); set the audio outputs on the PS3, BD, HTPC, & Digital Box to PCM (instead of bitstream); connect one of the HDMI outputs to the DVI Input of the ATI pre-pro via HDMI-DVI adapter for just Video; then connect the 7.1 Analog Outputs of the Switcher to the ATI's 7.1 Analog Inputs, and you have both Hi-Def Video and HD-audio.

That sounds like a great plan.

Good thinking.

Thanks. I think it will work for me since I don't need the additional inputs and outputs for HDMI and TrueHD immediately (I will probably in a year or so...so I could buy the switcher at that time).

I did receive an email from an audio dealer (through audioholics message system). He said, and I quote:

"I don't want to rain on your parade, but I am a dealer for many brands (including ATI) and the ati PrePros are "NOT" well recieved. The 8700 platform has been out for many years and just never made it. Thus the $995 price on a $6000 list PrePro. (any red flags go off?)."

Then he went on to say, "I love and often suggest and sell the ATI AMPs, in fact they are some of the best in the business, but all your bandaid fixes (switchers and DVI to HDMI converters and such) for the prepro will only serve to pollute the signals and allow you to limp along."

He then says, "I know the pricing is VERY attractive, but unless you are not very serious about your HT, it is a step backwards in technology."

I can understand his point of view, because he is in the business of making money off of the latest and greatest systems every year or so (and I believe that he is sincerely providing his honest opinion with the intent of being helpful towards a fellow audioholics community member, and I appreciate that)...

but, to me as a consumer in a bad economy, it seems that HDMI (and audio codecs) keeps changing and the manufacturers, in many cases, are not providing updates for the previous models, requiring prepro owners to sell their previous model prepro (with HDMI 1.1 - 1.3) at a loss for a new model prepro with 1.4a HDMI and with new surround codecs.

It seems to me that passing the blu-ray players analog outputs (on blu-ray models that have that option) to the prepros analog inputs (if they have bass management to the 7.1 analog inputs - like on the AT8700) for output to the speakers is a good way of avoiding the need to buy a prepro every year or so because the audio codecs are changing.

And with DVI, you can just change your HDMI adapter when a new version of HDMI comes out, thus...once again avoiding the costly premature obsolescence and sale (at a loss) of your now outdated prepro.

Please let me know if I am wrong about this, but it seems (from what I have read) that DVI is compatible with all new versions of HDMI (even 1.4a with 3D) and will help you avoid prepro premature obsolescence (for the video side).

I have not read anything about signal degradation from a DVI to HDMI adapter (as the dealer eluded to above). In fact, I have read that DVI to HDMI signals are not degraded by using adapters.

I have not read anything, one way or another, about video or audio signal degradation with HDMI/7.1 analog switchers (as the dealer mentioned above). Have you read about (or experienced) signal degradation problems when using a DVI to HDMI adapter or switcher and is signal degradation a real concern with this type of set up?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There should NOT be any kind of degradation on the 1080p video by using DVI-HDMI connections. I have never heard of such claims.

Is the seller CLASSIC AUDIO PARTS ?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homeproc&1298153582

I would buy directly from Classic Audio Parts brand new and get the full factory ATI warranty.

I have always believed that the best way to do things is to go all ANALOG.

It is SIMPLE and RELIABLE, and never needs to be upgraded.

Let the BD player do all the decoding.

For Video, you can always hook up DIRECTLY to the display/TV.

Say in 10 years when 1080p is the thing of the past. Say 8K Video (8 times the resolution of 1080p) is the future.

Say Purple-Ray players with 8K video is also the future.

You can hook up the player directly to the TV for this 8K video, and output the Audio to your analog sound system.

Your analog pre-pro + amp is still good to go. No need to upgrade.

If I were a millionaire, I wouldn't even buy any kind of pre-pro.

I would just get 3 Mark Levinson Pure Analog Class A Stereo Preamps + 5 monoblocks for a 100% pure analog audio.

Then I would let a Mark Levinson Universal player do all the AUDIO decoding and connect the video directly to the projector.

I think the COOLEST component out there is the Parasound Halo P7 7.1 Analog Preamplifier:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHAP7

It is a Pure Analog 7.1 Preamp. Just hook the video directly to the display and hook the BD's 7.1 analog output to this preamp + amp and you are set.

Pure analogs are always more reliable.

That is why only the Bryston's analog preamps and amps have the 20 yrs warranty. The Bryston's digital stuff only have a 3 yrs warranty. Digital breaks easier.

Analog seems to last forever.

 

[artiechoke]

Yes, Classic Audio parts is the one I was thinking of buying the ATP8700 from. They seem to have the best price.

I looked at the Parasound Halo P7 you mentioned. Very nice. Is it actually made in San Francisco? I like that it has two sets of 7.1 channel inputs as well as a headphone jack, phono stage (MM and MC), and mp3 or ipod jack in the front of the p7. Parasound also talks about using an HDMI switcher (if you need it) which they say does not degrade the video quality.

I also looked at the Emotiva umc-1. Very low price, but made in China. They seem to use high quality components such as a toroid transformer, multi-layer glass epoxy boards, etc., but I have also read they are suffering from multiple revisions to correct problems with sound and video drop outs using HDMI.

At this point I think I will stick with American made and go with an ATP8700 and buy a blu-ray with 7.1 analog outputs to get the trueHD sound benefit (unless something better comes along here shortly that is American made, without sound and video drop out issues that is very close to the price point of the ATP8700).

Thanks again AcuDefTechGuy for kicking this issue around with me. You helped to answer a lot of my questions.

I still would really like to hear from an ATI ATP8700 owner that can provide specific details about the prepro including build quality (and internal parts and component specs), remote, sound quality, ease of use and if they think it would be a good choice for me, based on my previous posts.

I'd also like to be able to see an online copy or .pdf for the ATI ATP8700 owner's manual to get a good look at the features and ease of use (I could only find a copy of the ATP8500 which is a bit different than the ATP8700). If anyone has a link to a copy of the manual for the ATP8700, I would appreciate it if you could post it or email me a copy of the .pdf. Thanks.

 

[lovebohn]

So did you ever buy the ATI pre/pro?