Sub Break-In????

[krzywica]

I know, I'm sure I don't have something hooked up right.

So last night I ran the auto setup on my receiver and it put the xover at 160 and I set the low pass filter to 125 and that seemed to help. I really don't know much about there PEQ1 and 2 so I didn't do anything with that. Other than that there aren't a lot of other settings to change on the sub menu. So I played a few songs that I know very well and those low, deep notes are still missing. It's better but in those when the drums and bass guitar go down all of a sudden they stop and I know there is a note or two lower.

So I watched Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen and The War of the Worlds two movies that sound incredible to me. Same thing, the deep low notes are not there. There is a lot of loud hard slamming bass that you hear but there is no low rumble bass that you feel. I do agree that this SVS is a lot tighter but the Klipsch believe it or not had a lot of rumble and bass you felt for 1/2 the price. I know the Klipsch is ported but this should not be.

My next step is to contact SVS and haul my JL over into the next room (this will be fun) and try it to see what it does. Overall, I am NOT satisfied with this sub for the reputation, the marketing hype, and the price.

If anyone has this sub please let me know what your settings are.

Thanks

I don't think anyone here has any of the SVS sealed subs.....they just came out and the members here tout the subs that SVS have always produced, the ported ones. As TLS mentioned this sub starts to lose SPL rapidly at 40Hz, which is right around the punch you in the chest type bass, anything below 25hz-30hz (for most people) would be the inaudible bass that you are describing. That sub is barely outputting anything at that point, surely not enough to match what the other speakers are outputting...

 

[emorphien]

I don't think anyone here has any of the SVS sealed subs.....they just came out and the members here tout the subs that SVS have always produced, the ported ones.

As I stated in this very thread, I have been listening to a smaller sealed SVS sub in a room of the same size (in fact a touch larger) and it is providing the bass he claims his is lacking.

 

[krzywica]

As I stated in this very thread, I have been listening to a smaller sealed SVS sub in a room of the same size (in fact a touch larger) and it is providing the bass he claims his is lacking.

Sorry I didn't read the whole thread....thanks for the input.

 

[TLS Guy]

As I stated in this very thread, I have been listening to a smaller sealed SVS sub in a room of the same size (in fact a touch larger) and it is providing the bass he claims his is lacking.

Sure but at what power.

These are sub facts of life.

A ported sub can go flat to the last octave without Eq with a driver with an Fs around 20 Hz. Qt will be high and some do not like that type of bass. I don't.

A sealed sub will roll off at 2 to 3 X Fs.

Now the best of drivers are going to have an Fs in the 20 Hz range. So under the best of circumstances roll off will start at 40 Hz and usually higher in any sealed sub.

So that means Eq. Roll off will be 12 db per octave, so Eq has to start at 12 db per octave at 40 Hz and usually nearer 60 Hz. Now for every 3 db of boost at a given frequency power to the speaker is doubled. So you can see by the low end of the last octave the driver has to handle gobs of power. Only expensive ones can. Even so unless you use about 3 or 4 18" drivers power in the last octave will be severely limited compared to a ported sub.

Even the Rhythmic with servo control, (which is just one way of providing Eq) power output is limited. So if you have small sub and it will tolerate Eq, you can have high spl and limited output on the lower octave, or low spl and reproduce the last octave to at least 25 Hz or so. You can NOT have both without using multiple large drivers and a fairly big box.

If you want low Qt and do not want to drive the H out of the drivers, then you need a massive TL, horn or a big space for IB. However even with IB you will need multiple large drivers, just like sealed. My choice is large TLs and the bass is deep powerful and very accurate.

Those are the facts of life, now live with them.

So to the OP use the equalizer in your sub and add 12 db boost per octave starting at 45 Hz. Forget auto Eq. Do it manually. Now see if you have enough spl in that small room to see if it satisfies you. If not return it. There is no other option.

 

[jinjuku]

Those are the facts of life, now live with them.

So to the OP use the equalizer in your sub and add 12 db boost per octave starting at 45 Hz. Forget auto Eq. Do it manually. Now see if you have enough spl in that small room to see if it satisfies you. If not return it. There is no other option.

Well said. As an example I am running two TC Sound's DB500 in a sealed 3.5 cubic foot enclosures with 3 lb of dampening material (stuffed to taste). This is a large volume for the driver that will let it dig deep at the expense of reaching x-max quicker. It's a trade off.

I use a Behringer DCX 2496 to boost from 40Hz on down and still manage in room 103-105 dB at 20Hz. My EP 2500 doesn't even break a sweat. Not the loudest but it is clean and is more than adequate.

 

[jb5200]

UPDATE:

So I contacted SVS and they gave me some setting changes that I needed to do and after following the steps I now achieved some of the rumble felt that I was missing. I had a buddy come over to listen to what I was talking about with the low notes missing. Once I changed everything according to SVS it changed things drastically.

Interestingly enough I now used an SPL meter to set all speakers the same. The sub however needed to be 11db higher than the rest of the speakers. It just seems weird that I have the vol. (gain) on the sub set to -10 which is 90% of max! We watched War of the Worlds and with the SPL got to 110db with a lot of rumble but it was so freakin loud!

The guy at SVS said I am probably getting a midbass null in the middle of the room and that's causing the canceling of the low waves due to the small room and placement of sub so that will be my next step to figure that out.

How do I change the EQ in the sub, the guy at SVS told me to disable them. The PEQ settings go 31, 35, 40, 45, etc. and then what do I put those at. I can change the level and the Q but this is above my knowledge. I just want to fine tune this to make sure I am getting everything out of this sub for my $.

Thanks for all of the help, this site is awesome! I feel like I should pay tuition, well I can't - just bought a sub.

jb

 

[just-some-guy]

I feel like I should pay tuition, well I can't - just bought a sub.

they will take payments

 

[highfigh]

You aren't because they don't.

The SB13 is a sealed sub, so it may not give the same kind of rumble as a vented sub, but if you get it setup correctly, I can't imagine anyone coming from a Klipsch sub to be disappointed. You would need a PB13 Ultra to compare to the Fathom AFAIK.

You might want to measure the T/S parameters of a few drivers before use and after it has been in operation for a while before making a blanket statement like this. In cabinet or out, the parameters change.

 

[j_garcia]

You might want to measure the T/S parameters of a few drivers before use and after it has been in operation for a while before making a blanket statement like this. In cabinet or out, the parameters change.

We've discussed this a number of times, and even Danny at GR said the same thing - the measurements change. The thing is, and nobody seems to be able to answer that, is that it doesn't seem to have an effect on the resulting sound in the cabinet. So I am not of the opinion that break-in really causes a change in the sound. It isn't intended to be a blanket statement, because it isn't a simple topic, but I haven't seen anyone actually prove one way or another that there is or is not a difference. When I installed brand new upgraded drivers in my A/V-2s, in the first day or two I noticed a slight change, but they were also using crossovers that were freshly rebuilt by me as well. After that day, there was no change in them, nor has there been in the last 4-5 years. In a sub, I would expect any driver adjustments to make even less difference.

 

[emorphien]

Sure but at what power.

halfish power

 

[lsiberian]

Sub Break-In is not necessary. I have never seen audible difference measured between the two and even so you still would not have poor performance out of the box. Rap music prefers higher tuning than movies do. I myself like tuning around .6 for movies, but rap folks tend to like .8 or higher. This is why we design subs for different applications.

 

[jb5200]

UPDATE:

So thanks to Ed at SVS he sorted me out. My limited knowledge really showed this time. I had a few settings in the receiver and sub that needed a little TLC and now there's a smile on my face!

I watched a movie last night and I jumped in my seat, it scared the s@#* out of me. Wow, I thought I blew something but it was actually the sub. I actually had to turn it down 1db. For music it is still a little vibratey, reverby, muddy - not as clean as the JL but I don't really listen to music on this system so I guess I can't have my cake and eat it to.

But overall, this thing impresses me, way above the Klipsch!

I'm still intrigued by the PEQ in this sub, on what it would do for me so if anyone has any knowledge in this area let me know!

jb

 

[beckzito]

Congrats jb,

Can you please explain exactly what settings Ed told you to change?!
Im with a Sb-13 plus at my living room still fighting to set it up correctly.

Cheers.

 

[highfigh]

We've discussed this a number of times, and even Danny at GR said the same thing - the measurements change. The thing is, and nobody seems to be able to answer that, is that it doesn't seem to have an effect on the resulting sound in the cabinet. So I am not of the opinion that break-in really causes a change in the sound. It isn't intended to be a blanket statement, because it isn't a simple topic, but I haven't seen anyone actually prove one way or another that there is or is not a difference. When I installed brand new upgraded drivers in my A/V-2s, in the first day or two I noticed a slight change, but they were also using crossovers that were freshly rebuilt by me as well. After that day, there was no change in them, nor has there been in the last 4-5 years. In a sub, I would expect any driver adjustments to make even less difference.

When I bought my first sub, I was pretty underwhelmed. I didn't change any settings in the system or the sub for about a week and as I listened to it, I noticed what I hadn't been getting from it before. These weren't subtle changes- the low end sucked. I specifically made the effort to listen to the same music frequently during that period because that would have been the only real test. That's why I made the comment before. In your case, I think the crossovers made the most immediate difference but it will be difficult for you to experience this, or not, unless you buy a new driver and do the initial listening cycle again.

Subtle changes won't be noticed, especially over 4-5 years. There's no possibility of remembering small details that far back unless someone has a truly Rain Man-like memory. As much as I can see your point, my point about break-in is that if something needs to flex in order to do what it was designed to, it's impossible to remain exactly the same in terms of compliance, resonance frequency, etc until it reaches some nominal level (if mass remains constant, the Fs must change as the compliance changes). Butyl rubber is the best material, IMO, for most consumer level drivers but in the pro audio world, doped, pleated fabric is very common for bass drivers and in fact, for everything up to the compression drivers.

I think it may be that the sound may change when the driver's characteristics are altered near the port tuning frequency, or maybe the low end of the sealed box response. I also think that how audible it is will be dependent on the diameter of the driver and its Fs.

 

[mtrycrafts]

You might want to measure the T/S parameters of a few drivers before use and after it has been in operation for a while before making a blanket statement like this. In cabinet or out, the parameters change.

Yes, some of the parameters go up, others go down. Tom Nousaine has shown this as has Richard Pierce. And, after the driver is off for a while, it returns to its original numbers or nearly so, then the change happens again, like a dynamic price at Amazon
Then the question is audibility of the changes. In the below 80 Hz, detection is worse than the mid bands, much worse, hence audibility follows, worse.

http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_crit.htm