Good cpu sound system for around $500

R

raytyej

Audioholic Intern
Hey guys! i'm new to these audio stuff. So i was wondering if anyone would help me out? i'm looking for good computer sound system for the price of $500. I am not an avid gamer but i do play games. However, i do listen to A LOT of music,mostly metal, rock and blues. Basically,more emphasis is on music than gaming. Thx a lot guys. Really appreciate all your inputs. And Merry Christmas to all! =D
 
krzywica

krzywica

Audioholic Samurai
Hey guys! i'm new to these audio stuff. So i was wondering if anyone would help me out? i'm looking for good computer sound system for the price of $500. I am not an avid gamer but i do play games. However, i do listen to A LOT of music,mostly metal, rock and blues. Basically,more emphasis is on music than gaming. Thx a lot guys. Really appreciate all your inputs. And Merry Christmas to all! =D
You probably would want to put something together. Usually a used surround sound receiver that will decode DTS/DD and 196/24 will do. You want to send the audio from your PC with a digital output so you don't have to worry about getting an expensive DAC or expensive Sound Card for the PC, basically let the receiver do all the heavy lifting.

I have been running Aperion 4B's for over a year now and love em to death. Combine them with a decent low priced sub like a Dayton Sub 120 and you have a killer little system.

Aperion Intimus 4B $260/pr

Dayton Sub 120 $140

Find a receiver for around $100 and that puts you right at $500.
 
R

raytyej

Audioholic Intern
You probably would want to put something together. Usually a used surround sound receiver that will decode DTS/DD and 196/24 will do. You want to send the audio from your PC with a digital output so you don't have to worry about getting an expensive DAC or expensive Sound Card for the PC, basically let the receiver do all the heavy lifting.

I have been running Aperion 4B's for over a year now and love em to death. Combine them with a decent low priced sub like a Dayton Sub 120 and you have a killer little system.

Aperion Intimus 4B $260/pr

Dayton Sub 120 $140

Find a receiver for around $100 and that puts you right at $500.
Hey thanks for your help!! I'm kind of new to these things so i might ask some retarded questions. haha what does the sound receiver does? and is it safe to assume that i do not need a sound card if i have a receiver?

The dayton sub looks like a good buy! but i was thinking of getting the Audioengine A5 with the sub. Is it advisable?

By the way, do you have any receivers to recommend? Thanks a lot again =D
 
R

raytyej

Audioholic Intern
You probably would want to put something together. Usually a used surround sound receiver that will decode DTS/DD and 196/24 will do. You want to send the audio from your PC with a digital output so you don't have to worry about getting an expensive DAC or expensive Sound Card for the PC, basically let the receiver do all the heavy lifting.

I have been running Aperion 4B's for over a year now and love em to death. Combine them with a decent low priced sub like a Dayton Sub 120 and you have a killer little system.

Aperion Intimus 4B $260/pr

Dayton Sub 120 $140

Find a receiver for around $100 and that puts you right at $500.
Hey thanks for your help!! I'm kind of new to these things so i might ask some retarded questions. haha what does the sound receiver does? and is it safe to assume that i do not need a sound card if i have a receiver?

The dayton sub looks like a good buy! but i was thinking of getting the Audioengine A5 with the sub. Is it advisable?

By the way, do you have any receivers to recommend? Thanks a lot again =D
 
T

Theresa

Junior Audioholic
Use the ATI's HDMI output

My ATI/AMD 5850's HDMI output does send a HDMI1.3a audio and video signal out. I find the fidelity quite good, far better than the motherboard audio (Realtek 889a). These cards and even more so the 6850s are great for gaming but I confess I never play any games. I know its over powered for a non-gaming system but I like it just as it is.
 
krzywica

krzywica

Audioholic Samurai
Hey thanks for your help!! I'm kind of new to these things so i might ask some retarded questions. haha what does the sound receiver does? and is it safe to assume that i do not need a sound card if i have a receiver?

The dayton sub looks like a good buy! but i was thinking of getting the Audioengine A5 with the sub. Is it advisable?

By the way, do you have any receivers to recommend? Thanks a lot again =D
If your onboard audio has a digital output then I would not get an additional sound card. This would not be the case however if you got the AE A5's as they have a built in amplifier and no audio processing capabilities. If you have the space for it I would suggest passive speakers like the Aperion's and a 5.1 receiver to power them. Something like this maybe.

I would check your local Craigslist and pawn shops for diamonds in the rough though.
 
digicidal

digicidal

Full Audioholic
I agree with krzywica on all points... however if you wanted something more 'desk friendly' than an AVR you could try something like this...

Mini T-Amp coupled with one of these little mini DAC's...

Or integrated in one box like the Big Joe III...

Either of which would leave you enough for some decent 2-way bookshelf speakers....

But you might want to just consider something like this as well:
M1Active 520 USB Nearfield which would leave all the rest of your desk free and save up the extra cash to put into a system in another room that you can actually enjoy (i.e. not be hunched over in a less than comfortable chair).
 
R

raytyej

Audioholic Intern
If your onboard audio has a digital output then I would not get an additional sound card. This would not be the case however if you got the AE A5's as they have a built in amplifier and no audio processing capabilities. If you have the space for it I would suggest passive speakers like the Aperion's and a 5.1 receiver to power them. Something like this maybe.

I would check your local Craigslist and pawn shops for diamonds in the rough though.
thanks! So do you think the audioengine will be a good buy?Anyway is audio processing important? It sounds so. HAHA! and how do you solve the audio processing part then? and what do you mean by passive speakers?
 
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R

raytyej

Audioholic Intern
I agree with krzywica on all points... however if you wanted something more 'desk friendly' than an AVR you could try something like this...

Mini T-Amp coupled with one of these little mini DAC's...

Or integrated in one box like the Big Joe III...

Either of which would leave you enough for some decent 2-way bookshelf speakers....

But you might want to just consider something like this as well:
M1Active 520 USB Nearfield which would leave all the rest of your desk free and save up the extra cash to put into a system in another room that you can actually enjoy (i.e. not be hunched over in a less than comfortable chair).
Part of the reason why i'm considering audioengine a5 is tt it has an ipod dock and i can actually enjoy it anywhere. but i was thinking tt if i get the a5 what kind of improvements should i make.(a receiver or a sub?) like which one is the best combination for the a5?
 
digicidal

digicidal

Full Audioholic
Well, it really depends on what your primary use is for it. IMHO the A5 would be good but limiting in several areas. First of all would be the fact that you have no other input option other than the 1/8" jack... which doesn't necessarily mean much, but it leads me to question build quality to some extent. Add in the fact that you are going to be pretty much stuck using your onboard sound card... which is bad - really bad if quality is your primary concern.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you won't listen to the A5's and think "this sounds like crap!" - especially if you don't have anything else to compare it to. However, the inside of a PC is an incredibly noisy environment for audio - especially onboard designs. Full shielded cards are much better, but still just OK and are expensive. If you went with an outboard USB DAC the quality of the audio would automatically be much better simply because it's now outside the PC case and away from all of the fans, powersupply, drives, etc...

In general the fewer electrical devices that MOVE that are near your audio equipment... the better. It's totally up to you, and I would recommend trying to listen to the A5's somewhere if you can. But when you consider that you'll be spending over $300 for speakers that will never be much more than regular PC speakers and might actually be powerful enough to expose much of the noise the soundcard is adding to your sound... It might only last for a few months before you are wanting something better.

If you go with separate components and passive speakers... then you can always upgrade one of the components while still retaining much of your initial investment.

If you're really considering just using the A5's then I would head to your local computer store or big box electronics store and see if they have a set of these... which for simple PC sound or playing an iPod via 1/8" patch cable are really quite nice and would save you a bundle.

Logitech Z623 THX 2.1 System
Similar to the idea in my last post... doing this will save you ~50% of the money you would spend on the A5's and should sound at least 75% as good for anything that the PC soundcard is capable of spitting out.

Plus this system not only has 2 1/8" inputs, but also a pair of RCA inputs - so if you decided later to upgrade your sound to an external DAC - you could still use the speakers, but would be feeding them a much cleaner signal, plus you could playback PC audio via ASIO so it wasn't being 'messed with' in windows. Also another nice feature is that there is a third 1/8" jack for headphones so if you wanted to listen quietly, you can plug in right on your desk rather than running the cord over to the headphone jack on your PC. :) Although if you significantly upgraded your source (i.e. DAC or soundcard) then these speakers would definitely become the weakest link.

The sound isn't great in comparison to a good AVR or T-amp + Passives - but at least when I listened to the A5 - I really didn't think they sounded all that great. Apparently I'm the odd man out in that regard however since the review on this site has them down as the bee's knees pretty much. LOL! I guess that's because I've never used my desktop PC for audio other than playing games or watching anime - and in both cases I'd rather have highs + bass for cheap, and leave my bigger spending to a system I can actually enjoy listening to. :)

Many people really like the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 setups too - and I don't think they're bad... I simply don't like anything that Klipsch makes in the sub $2K range... and I think I've owned all of them at some point in time.
 
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digicidal

digicidal

Full Audioholic
Another option to consider...

If this is going to be your only audio system (or even the one you primarily use for listening to music from the iPod) then please disregard my previous suggestion of the cheap Logitech speakers. I'm a little confused as to what you are trying to do... if I re-read your posts - or more accurately, if I read between the lines in your posts:

You don't really have a 'real' 2ch system (and potentially not a surround system either) and you want something that will let you get good sound while listening primarily to your iPod, but secondarily for getting better sound out of your PC/Mac??

That being the case, the A5's would probably do pretty well, although I would still recommend at least getting a USB soundcard/DAC to feed them - but it would still sound good if that's where you're going to do 100% of your listening.

Another option (although I stand by my previous separates suggestions... just not for the Logitech's or any other sub $150 powered PC speakers for MUSIC...) might be to get something like this:

Denon Mini-System

Or if your budget can be stretched a little bit:
Denon Network System

or

Similar from Cambridge Audio and from NAD also...

Although at some point it's going to lead you back to one fundamental truth... and that is exactly what krzywica was getting at... which is that once you hear good sound - you'll want to hear really good sound from everything... and that's where having a good (or even decent) AVR as your AMP/DAC/iPod Dock/Etc... really makes the most sense.

However, if this is just step one, and you plan to enjoy it now at your desk... and then enjoy it even more somewhere with (probably) better space, seating, and positioning opportunities - then the A5's should be a great choice and leaving you some 'seed money' for down the road.
 
R

raytyej

Audioholic Intern
Thanks!

thanks! sorry is my english bad? haha anyway i'm from singapore pardon me if my english is bad =D

Oh i would definetely like my PC to sound better. After all I will be watching movies and playing games if i get bored. But music is my primary concern.

anyway what is the difference between a sound card and a DAC? does it mean that i can get a dirt cheap sound card if i have a DAC? anyway i saw the HRT Music Streamer+ USB D/A Converter and kinda like it. Whatsmore its within my budget. What's your take?

By the way i have not heard quality sound before. But it sounds like an expensive hobby! haha
 
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digicidal

digicidal

Full Audioholic
thanks! sorry is my english bad? haha anyway i'm from singapore pardon me if my english is bad =D
...
anyway what is the difference between a sound card and a DAC? does it mean that i can get a dirt cheap sound card if i have a DAC? anyway i saw the HRT Music Streamer+ USB D/A Converter and kinda like it. Whatsmore its within my budget. What's your take?
Your english is perfectly fine... it's my reading comprehension that was at issue. ;)

I've heard good things about the HRT Streamer+ although I've not used it myself. I have tried several however, I use the Cambridge Audio DacMagic in my main rig. Any good USB DAC will sound much better than an onboard sound card (or even an upgraded internal sound card IMHO - although I do like the ASUS Xonar). In addition to much better specs and features... the biggest reason for doing it that way is to have the analog conversion occur physically distant from the inside of the computer. The DacMagic is overkill for a soundcard - but I got it because I wanted to be able to use it as an input switcher too (it has only 1 USB connection but has 2 additional inputs for optical/coax connections as well).

In addition to the HRT Streamer, you might want to look at the Musical Fidelity V-DAC which, although ugly as sin IMHO - is a little cheaper than the Streamer+ and is very highly regarded.

The Streamer (not plus) is pretty much the cheapest, decent USB DAC I've seen and would be more than adequate for listening to any setup that could fit on a desk. The other really nice thing with having an external DAC (and the only gripe I have with my DacMagic) is that if it's a 24bit/96kHz DAC or even 24/192 but that's rare in the low price bracket - is that you can download hi-res audio files and actually HEAR a difference. With your onboard sound card you can play those files, but if you are able to hear any difference between them and a 16bit/44kHz WAV file - then you have some kind of motherboard I've never seen before.

The bottom line is that whether you are talking about music stored on a PC, or a CD/DVD/Bluray - it is always optimal to wait until the last possible moment to convert digital audio into analog audio... because once it's analog, it's suceptible to noise and distortion. Up until that point, errors can be corrected and not be necessarily audible. After that point... changes will often be audible unless they are very, very slight ones.

Some really high-end speakers have DAC's built right into the speakers themselves in addition to the amps... so that there is nothing but a digital signal running all the way up to the point that it fed to the drivers. :)

As far as one DAC to another is concerned... they will all sound pretty much the same... with the exception of sampling rates, DSP modes (in AVRs), and perhaps some slight characteristics of any chips they have in the post analog signal path - one 24/96 DAC will sound just like any other one - and one 16/44 DAC will sound just like the one in pretty much any consumer CD player. However, no matter what DAC it is... if you have good speakers and decent amplification (which it appears the A5's do) - they will all sound better than the analog signal coming from your onboard soundcard.
 
R

raytyej

Audioholic Intern
thanks!

yeah the Musical Fidelity V-DAC looks terrible! haha..i'll start a new post to find out more about it's performance. anyway if im getting the A5's i MUST get an external DAC right? from what I heard its pretty useless if I get the A5s only as i will not be maximising the A5's potential.

Also the audio files also determines your sound quality? If so what if the 'minimum' or 'supposed' bitrate for the best listening?

Finally if i'm getting the A5's do i need to get any miscellaneous? i.e. wires,cables or whatsoever.

By the way thanks a lot again =D
 
digicidal

digicidal

Full Audioholic
Don't get me wrong... the sound from your PC to the A5's would be very good... but not nearly as good as it could sound. Because of the nature of the inside of the PC - fans, hard disks, as well as the powersupply itself - it's a very electrically 'noisy' environment. You've probably already heard this to some extent even if you've just used halfway decent headphones. Sometimes you can hear a whine when the hard drive is working hard, or even when there is a lot of network activity. I can even hear conversations my neighbor has on his wireless phones on occasion! :eek:

In any case, I wouldn't consider the A5's by themselves a total waste without an external DAC... but they may be good enough that you can hear all of the stuff going on in the PC even better - and that could get frustrating.

As far as the cables, etc... the speakers will come with pretty much everything you could want. The two important ones will be the 1/8" to 1/8" patch (for going from iPod,etc.. or PC if you do not get an external DAC) and the RCA to 1/8" patch if you do decide to get an external DAC. The only thing you would need would be a set of interconnects to connect the RCA outs on the DAC to the RCA side of that cable (since the A5's only have 1/8" inputs - it's basically just a converter). If you look on page 3 of the setup guide you can see what comes with them - and in subsequent pages what the different configurations you might want will look like.

It should work fine, however - especially in cheaper cables (which work just fine, or should) sometimes the connectors are bad - or the connections are weak. You can easily find a good 1/8" male to RCA male cable that will eliminate a redundant connection - which might not make a difference, but it might if there is a poor connection with the adapter.

The really nice thing is that audioengine has a 30-day return period... so you can easily try them out and return them if you really don't like them for some reason. You can also try them out before you worry about getting a USB DAC - after all... you might decide that you don't mind it that way. And you can always upgrade to the DAC down the road for even better sound!

As far as encoding, it all basically comes down to the source. If it is a lossless rip from a CD - then anything more than 16bit/44kHz will be upsampled... which isn't a bad thing necessarily (although opinions differ on this) but it started out at that resolution and it can't get better for the most part. You can google about sampling rates and spend about 1000 hours reading about it if you're so inclined. If the source was from DVD-A then it's possible to be as high as 24bit/192kHz - although I'm personally unaware of whether or not any actually exist. By far the most common high-res files (and they're not very common) are 24/96 FLAC files. Technically FLAC is capable of any bit rate between 4bit and 32bit and any sampling rate between 1hz and 650kHz - but nothing exists outside of the most common source standards.

There are simple and complex reasons for all of this - but the short answer is that you can only get a file a good as it was originally sampled for the most part - i.e. during the ADC phase... and having anything greater at the DAC phase will not significantly improve the sound. There are exceptions to this (of course) but in general that's the rule. In any case, all DAC's will at least be 16/44kHz - which is CD quality - and many will be 24/96 or 24/192 capable which is DVD/BD/HD FLAC quality. For an idea of downloadable 24/96 files look here or here.

In most cases, to be totally honest, you won't be able to hear the difference between versions - but I'm just giving you all the details so you can make your own determination. In fact at the second link you can download some free high-res files to try out - but if you don't have a DAC capable of the sampling rate and bit depth... then you won't even be able to play them so don't do that unless you decide you do want to get a USB DAC. :)
 
R

raytyej

Audioholic Intern
Thanks a lot again!

I think i'll probably get an external DAC

oh..i guess the interconnects for cheap right? where do you connect the interconnects to the A5?

wow the setup looks complicated. haha. oh well dosen't matter as long as i get great sound =D

In this case most of my source is mp3. format. Is there no way at all to improve to a lossless format? if so, which format would be the 2nd best alternative?
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
raytyej,
If I were you, I would stop. Think what exactly you trying to achieve.
Seek advice of more seasoned people like krzywica rather than taking advice from newer members as their advice might be not best.....

Tale a step back - What do you want? How much money you have.
Think hard and then ask right questions. External DACs are rarely good idea and needed in correctly setup.
 
R

raytyej

Audioholic Intern
raytyej,
If I were you, I would stop. Think what exactly you trying to achieve.
Seek advice of more seasoned people like krzywica rather than taking advice from newer members as their advice might be not best.....

Tale a step back - What do you want? How much money you have.
Think hard and then ask right questions. External DACs are rarely good idea and needed in correctly setup.
ok sure..can you give me some good advice then? im new so i do not really know these stuffs. as you can see my main concern is primarily music but i do play games and watch videos at times. i have a budget of 500
 
digicidal

digicidal

Full Audioholic
raytyej,
If I were you, I would stop. Think what exactly you trying to achieve.
Seek advice of more seasoned people like krzywica rather than taking advice from newer members as their advice might be not best.....

Tale a step back - What do you want? How much money you have.
Think hard and then ask right questions. External DACs are rarely good idea and needed in correctly setup.
Which is why my first post in this thread supported his recommendation directly - it's what I've done in all but my dedicated 2ch listening setup. However, I didn't realize that providing more than one option to someone wasn't welcomed on this forum... my bad.

I do have to laugh at that last line however... USB DACs are as easy to setup as a thumbdrive as nearly all of them require no driver install as they handshake as a 'External Media Device' in both Windows and OSX and in the case of the less expensive ones only have RCA jacks on one side and a USB connection on the other. If connecting a USB DAC is too complicated - running an optical or coax connection to an AVR (especially when he has not indicated that his PC even has a digital out) is rocket science in comparison. ;)

@raytyej - In answer to your last question - there is nothing you can do to 'fix' mp3's or any compressed audio file... once the information is gone you can't get it back. It must be lossless from the beginning. I guess I'll leave the advice to the experts around here then.
 
R

raytyej

Audioholic Intern
Hey thanks a lot anyway. Christmas's coming soon! dont quarrel! i appreciate all inputs be it the amount of experience. It's the willingness to read my boring replies that counts =D

Also, boredsysadmin talked about external DAC needing a 'correct' setup. What exactly does he mean by 'correct' setup?

about songs, i heard converting to a higher bitrate is better. Is it?

again thanks for your input. =D
 

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