Alex, how would you fix this (drywall)?

[MDS]

I need advice from the resident drywall expert or anybody else who cares to comment.

My new tile job is 90% done and the next step is to fix the nice hole I created over the fireplace when ripping out the big ugly concrete surround that used to be there. At first it was just a few holes but there was a lot of crap behind the wall so I cut it out into a nice rectangle to get back there to clean up the debris.

I was thinking it would actually be easier for a drywall guy because it looks like a single piece can be screwed to the studs and then just tape and mud the seams and the rest of the wall and retexture...but I'm usually wrong when it comes to home improvement tasks. A year ago I did speak to an older man that has been doing drywall for 40 years but he hasn't seen it in its current state.

Does it have to be cut to the left and right all the way to the studs or all the way to the bottom and replaced in one or two pieces or can just the missing piece be replaced? After it's done, the tile guys will tile from the floor up the sides and across the top of the firebox so I want the drywall to be sturdy.

 

[sawzalot]

It looks like the wall is less than eight foot from corner to corner so you are talking about the purchase of one eight foot sheet for a patch or two sheets to do the whole wall, I would go for the two new sheets and cut the angle corner tape joint and the ceiling to wall tape joint with a utility knife remove all of the dry wall and replace with two new sheets, I don't see any glue on the existing studs so it should be a breeze. I always go for the brand new clean slate, especially after all of the hard work you are doing, why settle for a patch.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Will the tile cover the patch completely? If so, extending the patch so it is sturdy (You can add 2x4's horizontally to secure those edges) and they tape and mud so you have a reasonably flat surface.

If not then I would redo that piece of the wall completely so it's as nice as it can be. Drywall is cheap.

A patch can be concealed if the person doing it knows what they are doing but most general contractors I have seen don't. Most general contractors are carpenters that finish drywall because they have too, not because they are "Finishers". The smart ones (that can't) have subcontractors that do it for them so the job that gets done looks good.

 

[MDS]

I always go for the brand new clean slate, especially after all of the hard work you are doing, why settle for a patch.

That's exactly how I think. I don't really care if it costs me a couple of hundred more to do the whole thing because once it's done, it's forever (more or less). I damn sure don't want to lose the investment in tile by doing a half-azz job now and maybe having to revisit it later.

 

[jamie2112]

That's exactly how I think. I don't really care if it costs me a couple of hundred more to do the whole thing because once it's done, it's forever (more or less). I damn sure don't want to lose the investment in tile by doing a half-azz job now and maybe having to revisit it later.

Totally agree with you on this.Sawzalot is right on stating why settle on a patch,do it right the 1st time and be done with it.It shouldn't be more than a couple hundred for a drywaller to do I would think.If you do it yourself make sure you measure right as I screwed up my drywall job and had to call a professional to make it right.Good luck to you.

 

[Alex2507]

... cut the angle corner tape joint and the ceiling to wall tape joint ...

Sorry Rob but this I would avoid like the plague. The adjoining walls and ceiling have textures of their own that you don't want the patch to affect. Doing as you suggest would require new tape and mud on those planes. Getting the new tape and mud to match will be impossible. A normal person might be able to stop looking at the mismatch but MDS might be forced to tear his whole house down. (sorry, couldn't resist)

My suggestion is to add blocking/backing (as you mentioned) across the top in between the studs and on the sides. The blocking can be 2x4 or plywood strips or metal and only needs to be attached to the existing drywall. It doesn't have to be attached to the studs to have any structural capabilities. Keep the extent of the patch/mud work confined to that wall. Add whatever insulation before the patch. Have you're drywall finisher use E-Z Sand 20 or 45 for the tape and first coat (which happen at the same time). He can go out for a few beers and come back for a 2nd coat that day. If he doesn't drink, don't trust him. He could snap at any minute. It should take another coat or maybe two coats to get it ready for tile.

If the wall has a heavy texture on it he can knock down the high spots with a quick sanding and skim the whole thing out with regular mud in like 20 or 30 minutes which will make it easier for the tile guy. Chances are pretty good that your tile guy can handle this or will know somebody who can. I'm thinking $400-$450 will get that wall ready for tile including material. It being Texas means you can probably get it for half that and this economy probably means you can get it for $175 but as TLS says, your most expensive purchases are the cheap ones.

If it was me I would yank out the fire place. Texas, right?

... and I wouldn't let Jamie near any power tools ... ever.

 

[mtrycrafts]

If you are removing the drywall all the way, you may want to consider redoing the header installation. The way it is is not right at all. While it may not fall apart and support, it is not correctly installed.

 

[MDS]

Sorry Rob but this I would avoid like the plague. The adjoining walls and ceiling have textures of their own that you don't want the patch to affect. Doing as you suggest would require new tape and mud on those planes. Getting the new tape and mud to match will be impossible. A normal person might be able to stop looking at the mismatch but MDS might be forced to tear his whole house down. (sorry, couldn't resist)

You know me all too well. I used joint compound to patch up the bottoms of the walls after the baseboards were ripped out because I wanted to glue the broken paper back together and cover the corner beads. I'm currently priming it and there is no way I can finish the whole house before the tile guys return tomorrow (shouldn't have taken Thanksgiving off). [And yes, I know that you won't see it once I get new baseboards. ]

The drywall veteran I spoke to awhile ago said the same exact thing about the corners and retexturing. He said he is expert at matching texture but would want to avoid those corners like the plague.

 

[MDS]

If you are removing the drywall all the way, you may want to consider redoing the header installation. The way it is is not right at all. While it may not fall apart and support, it is not correctly installed.

Great! Another thing to complain about with this house. It's only 8 years old and yet there are lots of little things that at least *I* think are suspect.

The thing I noticed and was not too happy about is the left vertical 2x4. It doesn't touch the horizontal member so really it's just the nails taking all the weight on that side. I put two more nails in (which will probably do nothing) but never thought it was so wrong it should be redone.

 

[Alex2507]

The thing I noticed and was not too happy about is the left vertical 2x4. It doesn't touch the horizontal member so really it's just the nails taking all the weight on that side.

The weight of what? The Drywall? ... Trust me, it's fine. The drywall doesn't need the support. The header framing might not be right for a bearing wall but that wall up until now has only ever had to support paint. It is not a load bearing wall supporting an overhead load. Drywall is probably around 2lbs/ft^2. I bet that header will support all your weight on any given single point. Try it ... climb up on it ... then stop thinking about it because then you will know that it is like 100 times stronger than it needs to be.

Your hanyman/carpenter/drywaller can toe screw some 3" screws into the header framing through pre-drilled holes if he feels it isn't stable enough but it's fine. The only thing that wall needs is for somebody to fix the hole.

 

[MDS]

The weight of what? The Drywall? ... Trust me, it's fine. The drywall doesn't need the support. The header framing might not be right for a bearing wall but that wall up until now has only ever had to support paint. It is not a load bearing wall supporting an overhead load.

Yeah, I was thinking it's load bearing but it's not. The left side of the fireplace is the master bedroom wall and the right side is an exterior wall (porch behind it).

Just think, I could potentially have this house put back together by January. Then I can get back to the important stuff like upgrading the HT. Oh wait, might want to get serious about looking for a new job at the new year...every dollar I spend reduces my net worth and that is not good.

 

[Rickster71]

If you are removing the drywall all the way, you may want to consider redoing the header installation. The way it is is not right at all. While it may not fall apart and support, it is not correctly installed.

That's not a header, it's a nailer for the mantle.

 

[mtrycrafts]

That's not a header, it's a nailer for the mantle.

Perhaps, but that space is more than the 16" or 24" wide so where does any load from above go to? Even if it is not a roof load bearing he might have some floor jousts up there that would transfer the loads to what?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yeah, I was thinking it's load bearing but it's not. The left side of the fireplace is the master bedroom wall and the right side is an exterior wall (porch behind it).

Just think, I could potentially have this house put back together by January. Then I can get back to the important stuff like upgrading the HT. Oh wait, might want to get serious about looking for a new job at the new year...every dollar I spend reduces my net worth and that is not good.

No second floor on it? Then, you are fine.
That gap is the shrinking of the wet 2x4 that was used for construction.

 

[Alex2507]

That gap is the shrinking of the wet 2x4 that was used for construction.

Yeah because there's no way the master craftsman who was commissioned
to cut that 2x4 cut it too short and simply didn't give a sh!t. Nooooo ....

I'm glad that I gave Rick my book on wood. It talks about cell structure in lumber and how it relates to shrinkage so he can provide all the infinitely boring technical stuff but it doesn't shrink that much the long way. I'm hoping that out of respect for MDS, Rob and Doug will be able to restrain themselves from turning this into a sausage fest.

... he might have some floor joists up there that would transfer the loads to what?

... to the exterior and load bearing walls. That wall is only there to put a fire place into.

 

[gmichael]

I'm glad that I gave Rick my book on wood. It talks about cell structure in lumber and how it relates to shrinkage so he can provide all the infinitely boring technical stuff but it doesn't shrink that much the long way. I'm hoping that out of respect for MDS, Rob and Doug will be able to restrain themselves from turning this into a sausage fest.

I should have known that you would be the expert on shrinkage.

 

[Alex2507]

I should have known that you would be the expert on shrinkage.

Between 'shrinkage' and 'not long enough' what I know could fill volumes.

... sorry to have overlooked you in the sausage fest comment but what with the holiday and your vacation you ain't been around much. Good to see you're back at work. Yes, I'm jealous.

 

[gmichael]

Between 'shrinkage' and 'not long enough' what I know could fill volumes.

... sorry to have overlooked you in the sausage fest comment but what with the holiday and your vacation you ain't been around much. Good to see you're back at work. Yes, I'm jealous.

I've actully been busy as h.ll lately. I don't get to post much anymore. I'll take it over the alternative though. Sorry that you are living that alternative. Hang in there. I'm sure that someone will realize how much they need your many talents and wonder how they ever got along without you.