RBH 1010 SEN/SEP Frequency Response Difference - why?

[hewhoisbill]

Hey all,

Thanks to the chatter on this forum and elsewhere, I sadly caught the bass bug. As a result, I am in the process of acquiring a pair of RBH 1010 SEN's for my home theater to replace the Emp Tek E10s subwoofer that came with the Destination Audio set-up I purchased earlier this year. After a bit of poking around, I decided to move on the pair of 1010's that were south of a grand on Audiogon. I felt comfortable that I was going to be happy with them after having read some of the words Gene had used to describe them in his review of the T-2 system, as well as other feedback I had found on line.

So, thats the background to my situation... the point to my post is that I noticed a significant difference in the stated frequency response on the RBH website between the SEN (passive) and the SEP (powered with an internal amplifier) versions. The two provided frequency responses were:

1010 SEP
20hz - 180hz (+/- 3 db)

1010 SEN
24hz - 180hz (+/- 3 db)

To my knowledge (correct me if I am wrong), there is no difference in the drivers, the box, or the port between the two models. There is only the exclusion of the amplifier from the passive version; should this have a difference on the performance of the sub? To my unknowing brain, I had thought that no amp = more air space in box = more boom.

If the sub is properly powered (Behringer ep4000 go!), should there be any difference whatsoever? Any thoughts you fine folks have on the matter would be appreciated.

Regards,

Bill

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey all,

Thanks to the chatter on this forum and elsewhere, I sadly caught the bass bug. As a result, I am in the process of acquiring a pair of RBH 1010 SEN's for my home theater to replace the Emp Tek E10s subwoofer that came with the Destination Audio set-up I purchased earlier this year. After a bit of poking around, I decided to move on the pair of 1010's that were south of a grand on Audiogon. I felt comfortable that I was going to be happy with them after having read some of the words Gene had used to describe them in his review of the T-2 system, as well as other feedback I had found on line.

So, thats the background to my situation... the point to my post is that I noticed a significant difference in the stated frequency response on the RBH website between the SEN (passive) and the SEP (powered with an internal amplifier) versions. The two provided frequency responses were:

1010 SEP
20hz - 180hz (+/- 3 db)

1010 SEN
24hz - 180hz (+/- 3 db)

To my knowledge (correct me if I am wrong), there is no difference in the drivers, the box, or the port between the two models. There is only the exclusion of the amplifier from the passive version; should this have a difference on the performance of the sub? To my unknowing brain, I had thought that no amp = more air space in box = more boom.

If the sub is properly powered (Behringer ep4000 go!), should there be any difference whatsoever? Any thoughts you fine folks have on the matter would be appreciated.

Regards,

Bill

First of all the difference is inconsequential. I suspect there is a small amount of Eq built into the amp.

 

[GranteedEV]

4hz of extension sounds like EQ at play. Don't put much stock into it.

More importantly I'd be lookin into getting a BFD or AS-EQ1 or SMS-1 or Antimode - something to properly incorporate the two subs. and get flat in room response.

 

[GranteedEV]

On RBH amplifiers IE the SA-200 and SA-400 it says there's a "defeatable 4db boost at 25hz"

There you go.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sounds similar to the NHT Classic Four towers. Without the extra sub amp, the bass extension was in the mid-30Hz. But with the sub amp, the bass was down to 27Hz.

The sub amp will provide an active crossover & GAIN control. Thus, you can increase the gain and bass output with the sub amp.

 

[hewhoisbill]

On RBH amplifiers IE the SA-200 and SA-400 it says there's a "defeatable 4db boost at 25hz"

There you go.

Thanks for the find; it is good to know that it is merely the EQ on that specific amp boosting the response of the subwoofer.

As for the EQ to balance the multiple sub output, thats next on my list of 'to-do's'; once I get the subs set up in home I will be tracking down a solution to bring out their full potential. Thanks for the guidance as to where to start looking first!

Regards,

Bill

 

[GranteedEV]

Thanks for the find; it is good to know that it is merely the EQ on that specific amp boosting the response of the subwoofer.

As for the EQ to balance the multiple sub output, thats next on my list of 'to-do's'; once I get the subs set up in home I will be tracking down a solution to bring out their full potential. Thanks for the guidance as to where to start looking first!

Regards,

Bill

A few things...

-With an amp as powerful as your EP2500, I'd definitely contact RBH and ask them about recommended high pass filter slope and frequency. You don't want to damage your sub below its tuning.
-A Behringer Feedback Destroyer with the REW software is the most economical solution for Room EQ, a Velodyne SMS-1 however is a lot simpler and has more features (although more expensive).

 

[hewhoisbill]

A few things...

-With an amp as powerful as your EP2500, I'd definitely contact RBH and ask them about recommended high pass filter slope and frequency. You don't want to damage your sub below its tuning.
-A Behringer Feedback Destroyer with the REW software is the most economical solution for Room EQ, a Velodyne SMS-1 however is a lot simpler and has more features (although more expensive).

The first point had honestly never occurred to me; I was still thinking along the lines of 'can never have too much amp, but can have too little', but it sounds like too much is a possibility in this situation. I will reach out during the week and see what RBH can provide me with.

I am going to be looking closely at the Behringer, but probably won't pull the trigger on anything until I see what deals Black Friday brings to the Velodyne for companies willing to ship to Canada. Simpler may be better for this guy

 

[GranteedEV]

The first point had honestly never occurred to me; I was still thinking along the lines of 'can never have too much amp, but can have too little', but it sounds like too much is a possibility in this situation. I will reach out during the week and see what RBH can provide me with.

It should be fine for musical content.

WIth ported speakers though, the unloading below tuning can cause a driver to bottom out if a movie has a powerful subsonic bass sequence. Most movies don't, but it's a worthwhile precautionary measure for the few that do. Most subwoofer amps have HPF's built in but a pro amp isn't a sub amp: the EP2500's high pass filter is build in at 30hz which is way too high.

The velodyne IIRC has a high pass filter you can mess with along with its EQ features.