Sound signatures in integrated amps?

[KEW]

I am planning to audition some GM Rio speakers against my Focal Solo6's. The seller has the following three amps available (I don't have model numbers yet).
Leben integrated
Audio Note integrated
Naim integrated

I generally assume any mainstream amp will sound the same (I will be using whatever pure direct mode is available - if these are not straight line amps). However, I am not familiar with any of the above brands and want to know if any of these have any special sound character (like some of the Carver amps are purposely tweaked to emulate the Silver Seven tubed amp).

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[jamie2112]

I know Audio note and Naim are both great hi end products.I am not sure of the Leben............as far as sound goes,any good amp should NOT have a sound to it.It is just providing power.In other words none of those should have a "sound" to it.Although the Carver amps were good I have not heard what you are describing.

 

[Warpdrv]

I know Audio note and Naim are both great hi end products.I am not sure of the Leben............as far as sound goes,any good amp should NOT have a sound to it.It is just providing power.In other words none of those should have a "sound" to it.Although the Carver amps were good I have not heard what you are describing.

I will say that the amps shouldn't provide a sound, but Ive experienced many times directly A/B'd different amps and the sound stage can be significantly better.....

Naim is def an exceptional piece of gear, if I was looking at a 2 channel rig I would certainly be looking hard at them....

 

[jostenmeat]

Well, an integrated is not just an amp, but preamp too. Just making a point. I've never heard any of those products.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I am planning to audition some GM Rio speakers against my Focal Solo6's. The seller has the following three amps available (I don't have model numbers yet).
Leben integrated
Audio Note integrated
Naim integrated

I generally assume any mainstream amp will sound the same (I will be using whatever pure direct mode is available - if these are not straight line amps). However, I am not familiar with any of the above brands and want to know if any of these have any special sound character (like some of the Carver amps are purposely tweaked to emulate the Silver Seven tubed amp).

Thanks,
Kurt

Naim had an issue in the past in that the amps were very sensitive to cable capacitance and would go into oscillation and self destruction if the cable wasn't low capacitance. So, I have no idea is that issue was ever corrected or not.

 

[KEW]

Thanks for the comments!
It sounds like none of these should do anything to really alter the sound much (I do plan to avoid any tone controls, etc).
Somewhere I had read that some of the high end gear actually color the sound deliberately. Since I had never heard of these companies, I wanted some idea if I should be concerned when making comparisons that the Integrated amp was responsible for any differences in sound.

 

[GranteedEV]

Somewhere I had read that some of the high end gear actually color the sound deliberately.

I definitely have this belief - Maybe not for the well-known brands ie bryston/mcintosh/classe etc but I think a lot of the other high end mystery brands are only around because of how they color sound to "audiophiles" liking.

 

[jostenmeat]

I once auditioned the same ML electrostats, which had two sets of components in front of them (at the now non-existent Tweeter here). One was all Krell and the other was all Cambridge. The two setups definitely sounded different to me, but I definitely won't say that one was better. I suppose it's just subjectivity, and in my mind, I don't want to pay so much for that stuff. But where did any of the sonic differences come from? (Who knows?) I think there might have even been different cdp's, can't recall, but definitely different preamp/amp next to integrated.

FWIW, Naim is the only brand of those that I've even heard of, so I woulda picked that . . . until that strange stuff that mtrycrafts shared here . . . . hmmm. . . .

 

[KEW]

I got model numbers.
The Leben CS300X is pretty cool looking, like from the 60's:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/leben/cs300x.html

Audio Note Oto SE:
http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/amps_integrated/oto_se_01.shtml#

Naim Nait XS:
http://www.avguide.com/review/hifi-plus-67-naim-nait-xs-integrated-amplifier-flatcap-xs-power-supply

Pretty slick stuff, but it is the speakers I'm interested in!

He also commented that he had a NAD 375BEE.

I'm assuming at least one of these will have a remote with a mute button and tape output. I'll bring my UPS-1 to have something with a remote to plug the Focals into.

I noticed that the Audio Note is a 10W tube amp, so I'll stay away from that one.

 

[jostenmeat]

As a current NAD amp owner, and former NAD prepro owner, I have reservations about their prepros. Can you possibly use two integrateds? Two sets of auditions? I'm sure he's got to have preterminated banana plugs to make this all easy . . . just wonderin' out loud . . . anyways good luck! I'll check in later . . . when does this happen anyways?

 

[KEW]

As a current NAD amp owner, and former NAD prepro owner, I have reservations about their prepros. Can you possibly use two integrateds? Two sets of auditions? I'm sure he's got to have preterminated banana plugs to make this all easy . . . just wonderin' out loud . . . anyways good luck! I'll check in later . . . when does this happen anyways?

It is on for tomorrow AM, so at this point, I'll just go and see what he has. If things don't work out, maybe I can talk him into letting me take them home for a few days.

I really don't want to tear down my system haul my two Marantz receivers (although it is the perfect solution for instant switching since the one mute button on the remote switches both units). Right now, I'm bringing the two Focals and two speaker stands and the USP-1. I think I can safely fit all of this in my car without too much bother. Adding two receivers makes secure packing and padding into a logistics issue.
Since it is his gear and I presume he has been running it in different configurations, I believe the Naim (which I hope has the remote) should be safe to use with the Rio's. Thus I'll have to hit two mute switches at the same time to get instant switching (I hope) and level matching.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I got model numbers.
The Leben CS300X is pretty cool looking, like from the 60's:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/leben/cs300x.html

Audio Note Oto SE:
http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/amps_integrated/oto_se_01.shtml#

Naim Nait XS:
http://www.avguide.com/review/hifi-plus-67-naim-nait-xs-integrated-amplifier-flatcap-xs-power-supply

Pretty slick stuff, but it is the speakers I'm interested in!

He also commented that he had a NAD 375BEE.

I'm assuming at least one of these will have a remote with a mute button and tape output. I'll bring my UPS-1 to have something with a remote to plug the Focals into.

I noticed that the Audio Note is a 10W tube amp, so I'll stay away from that one.

You may also want to read that CS300X. It is talking about EL 84s. Those are tubes as well and both are rather low in power outputs.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I have the NAD C372, the immediate predecessor to the 375BEE, and am very pleased with its performance. I would consider it to be as neutral as you're gonna find. So, if you have doubts about the others, I'd go with the NAD for the purpose of auditioning speakers.

 

[KEW]

Just as a follow through, I did listen to the Green Mountain Rio's today. All I can say is they are a very nice sounding speakers (as in they did absolutely nothing to offend my ear).
Unfortunately, between time and equipment constraints, we could not figure out a way to setup proper A-B testing. The guy did offer to let me take them home for a day or two, but I won't have the time to audition them until early the week of Thanksgiving.
If he still has them (for sale) I will take him up on it and post a proper account in the speaker forum.
As is, I am not comfortable with the attempt to make an accurate comparison between different speakers in different rooms.

 

[GranteedEV]

I think the real question is how much the time coherence amazed you. Like did it make your jaw hit the floor, or did your jaw just drop a few inches?

 

[KEW]

I think the real question is how much the time coherence amazed you. Like did it make your jaw hit the floor, or did your jaw just drop a few inches?

I can't say it stunned me. I was impressed with the quality of sound it managed in a congested 10' X 12' X 8' room. I really want it side by side with my Solo6 because, thus far, the Solo6 is the most accurate and "tight" speaker I have heard and if the GM can beat it, that, alone would be an impressive feat.

Right or wrong, I attribute the accuracy and "tightness" of the Solos to the active crossover with true bi-amping, so I am interested in seeing if the time coherent philosophy can get a passive crossover speaker anywhere close.

If I get them home, I can also compare with other passive speakers.

Last, I am interested in hearing how well the "cast marble" cabinets eliminate resonances. I feel the resonance of many cabinets add warmth to smaller ensembles giving them better SQ than a rigid cabinet, while larger groups playing more complex passages at high volume will result in distortion from the resonance, giving the more rigid cabinet better SQ. In his small room, the room overloaded before the speakers.

 

[Pyrrho]

Thanks for the comments!
It sounds like none of these should do anything to really alter the sound much (I do plan to avoid any tone controls, etc).
Somewhere I had read that some of the high end gear actually color the sound deliberately. Since I had never heard of these companies, I wanted some idea if I should be concerned when making comparisons that the Integrated amp was responsible for any differences in sound.

Yes, some high end gear is garbage that works far worse than most very modestly priced gear. Take a look at this:

http://stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/704wavac/

Measurements:

http://stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/704wavac/index5.html

$350,000 buys you, in this case, performance far worse than you could get for relatively little money. The ultra high end is filled with garbage. The ultra high end is literally for people with more money than sense.


Notice, the differences between such an amplifier and other amplifiers is easily measured. If all measurements were the same (and are sufficiently extensive), then you are not going to hear any difference.

 

[Pyrrho]

I once auditioned the same ML electrostats, which had two sets of components in front of them (at the now non-existent Tweeter here). One was all Krell and the other was all Cambridge. The two setups definitely sounded different to me, but I definitely won't say that one was better. I suppose it's just subjectivity, and in my mind, I don't want to pay so much for that stuff. But where did any of the sonic differences come from? (Who knows?) I think there might have even been different cdp's, can't recall, but definitely different preamp/amp next to integrated.

FWIW, Naim is the only brand of those that I've even heard of, so I woulda picked that . . . until that strange stuff that mtrycrafts shared here . . . . hmmm. . . .

The differences could be due to many different things, including impedance mismatches, equipment malfunction, failure to level match them, etc.

 

[Boerd]

I am planning to audition some GM Rio speakers against my Focal Solo6's. The seller has the following three amps available (I don't have model numbers yet).
Leben integrated
Audio Note integrated
Naim integrated

I generally assume any mainstream amp will sound the same (I will be using whatever pure direct mode is available - if these are not straight line amps). However, I am not familiar with any of the above brands and want to know if any of these have any special sound character (like some of the Carver amps are purposely tweaked to emulate the Silver Seven tubed amp).

Thanks,
Kurt

I have never listened to Leben

Audio Note and Naim amps are truly high-end - if they are in mint condition they should have ABSOLUTELY NO "SIGNATURE" If they do have a sound (signature) of their own the unit must be defect
Audio Note to me is something special (listened to a few at an audio show in San Francisco) - but normally if I was buying I'd take the cheaper between AN and Naim

Anyway - I'd rather spend on speakers than on amplifiers ...
Speaking on integrated amps Marantz makes 400$-1000$ integrated amps that to me sound as good as the megabuck ones; then there is Parasound/Denon/etc - my 2C

 

[mtrycrafts]

...Measurements:

http://stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/704wavac/index5.html

....

And, I just love this comment in that write up
This rolloff will be audible, but is not that important.
LOL not important.

I guess they could not afford a better design.