Control4 system

[Capt.Ron]

Hey folks, new to the forum and have some questions.
I'm building a new home and I've had it prewired for a control4 systems.
The current problem is that we're massively over budget and the A/V package is pretty low on the "required" list.
You can download the estimate at this link.
I'd like to know if any of you know how I can do something close on my own or if there is a less expensive option through control4 or someone else?
Would you suggest different components to combine with control4?
I guess I could buy up pieces of the system myself and have the contractor tie it all in with Control4.
There is a massive bundle of wires in my A/V communications closet it's gonna be fun trying to figure out what's what!!

 

[GranteedEV]

Sorry, I can't be the only one who just laughed when he read "FREE DOORBELL ANNOUNCEMENT"?

 

[Capt.Ron]

Sorry, I can't be the only one who just laughed when he read "FREE DOORBELL ANNOUNCEMENT"?

No I laughed too!!
I guess the word "FREE" is expected to seal the deal.

 

[highfigh]

Hey folks, new to the forum and have some questions.
I'm building a new home and I've had it prewired for a control4 systems.
The current problem is that we're massively over budget and the A/V package is pretty low on the "required" list.
You can download the estimate at this link.
I'd like to know if any of you know how I can do something close on my own or if there is a less expensive option through control4 or someone else?
Would you suggest different components to combine with control4?
I guess I could buy up pieces of the system myself and have the contractor tie it all in with Control4.
There is a massive bundle of wires in my A/V communications closet it's gonna be fun trying to figure out what's what!!

It's not hard to figure out which cables do what- it's just time-consuming and tedious if they weren't labeled.

 

[Capt.Ron]

It's not hard to figure out which cables do what- it's just time-consuming and tedious if they weren't labeled.

I haven't looked in each room but one of the rooms the cables are numbered.
There is around 8-10 wires going to each room.

 

[Capt.Ron]

One of my questions is do I need all of the components that the vendor has listed in the estimate or can I get the same thing in a different or similar setup?
These systems that require dealer installation and setup kind of leave the average consumer in the dark.
While I don't have a major knowledge of all of this I do have some but it can get overwhelming, especially since I have plumbers, electricians, finish framers and floor guys all pulling at me at the same time.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Most of what is in there is very reasonable for a quality system. You can spend dozens (and more) hours doing all of this work yourself if you would like, but you aren't going to get much which will work as smooth as a Control4 system for the money. Spending less isn't going to make your life better or truly leave the system usable.

If I were to do a system like this, I might go with some b-stock (used) gear, which has been tested to be working properly, and I would probably go with lesser expensive speakers for the non-critical areas to save some money.

Your Rooms:
Living Room (A/V Surround Zone)
Game Room (A/V Stereo Zone)
Master Bedroom (A/V Surround Zone)
Patio (Stereo Zone)
Small Garage (TV connected?)
Upstairs Bedroom (TV)

Considering the use of a matrix switcher and the ability to have a centrally located head-end with A/V distribution, I would say that this is a low-ball installation. It may sound high, but it works out to under $2,000 a room, with two of the rooms being full surround zones, and it is fully installed, turn-key.

What I do see here is a significant lack of labor. While there are several spots where labor is called out, in many spots it is rolled into the equipment cost. 3.5 hours to program a remote, hang a TV, install 2 in-wall/ceiling speakers, and to test it all is not something I have seen done by a qualified technician with significant skills in a proper fashion, so there are labor costs buried in some equipment costs.

Yes, you could buy much of the gear yourself... Heck, I'm very happy with the 8" in-wall speakers I picked up from Monoprice at half the price of the speakers listed, but if they are (they are) burying labor costs, then your labor figure will go up as you pull material out of the job.

I'm going to be installing a similar system which will be a few TVs (Client Furnished) a 65" or so TV I will provide, surround I will provide, amplification, and Crestron control WITH the prewire, and the system will be about $12,000 total. That will be using a significant amount of well tested b-stock gear to achieve that price point, but will do it. You can save some money, but you won't likely save a ton in the long run.

 

[Capt.Ron]

Most of what is in there is very reasonable for a quality system. You can spend dozens (and more) hours doing all of this work yourself if you would like, but you aren't going to get much which will work as smooth as a Control4 system for the money. Spending less isn't going to make your life better or truly leave the system usable.

If I were to do a system like this, I might go with some b-stock (used) gear, which has been tested to be working properly, and I would probably go with lesser expensive speakers for the non-critical areas to save some money.

Your Rooms:
Living Room (A/V Surround Zone)
Game Room (A/V Stereo Zone)
Master Bedroom (A/V Surround Zone)
Patio (Stereo Zone)
Small Garage (TV connected?)
Upstairs Bedroom (TV)

Considering the use of a matrix switcher and the ability to have a centrally located head-end with A/V distribution, I would say that this is a low-ball installation. It may sound high, but it works out to under $2,000 a room, with two of the rooms being full surround zones, and it is fully installed, turn-key.

What I do see here is a significant lack of labor. While there are several spots where labor is called out, in many spots it is rolled into the equipment cost. 3.5 hours to program a remote, hang a TV, install 2 in-wall/ceiling speakers, and to test it all is not something I have seen done by a qualified technician with significant skills in a proper fashion, so there are labor costs buried in some equipment costs.

Yes, you could buy much of the gear yourself... Heck, I'm very happy with the 8" in-wall speakers I picked up from Monoprice at half the price of the speakers listed, but if they are (they are) burying labor costs, then your labor figure will go up as you pull material out of the job.

I'm going to be installing a similar system which will be a few TVs (Client Furnished) a 65" or so TV I will provide, surround I will provide, amplification, and Crestron control WITH the prewire, and the system will be about $12,000 total. That will be using a significant amount of well tested b-stock gear to achieve that price point, but will do it. You can save some money, but you won't likely save a ton in the long run.

Ok....makes sense.
The guy had quoted me a lower end setup but it was only 1K less than the matrix system. I'm going to have to figure out somewhere to cut so I can pay for this without too much pain.
Oh, in case I hadn't already mentioned it. They've already installed all of the wires and have been paid for that.
Might/might not explain the low labor cost.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Not entirely.

Keep in mind, you can do this in stages if you are budget pressed.

You can hook a cable box to each TV for the time being, and forgo the audio only zones and matrix switcher to begin with.

The system is nice and should work well when it is complete, but really, if you can't afford it, then talk to them about breaking it into 2 or 3 sections. The most important part - the prewire - is completed and from there, you can cut back a bit if necessary. You lose functionality, but you can cut those rooms/zones for now, and add them later as your budget allows.

Put in the living room and master bedroom, then leave the rest for later.

 

[Capt.Ron]

Not entirely.

Keep in mind, you can do this in stages if you are budget pressed.

You can hook a cable box to each TV for the time being, and forgo the audio only zones and matrix switcher to begin with.

The system is nice and should work well when it is complete, but really, if you can't afford it, then talk to them about breaking it into 2 or 3 sections. The most important part - the prewire - is completed and from there, you can cut back a bit if necessary. You lose functionality, but you can cut those rooms/zones for now, and add them later as your budget allows.

Put in the living room and master bedroom, then leave the rest for later.

Yea Kind of considering that too.

 

[GranteedEV]

hey i've got a question

How exactly would all the Emotiva Professional gear fit into this whole equation?

All the things on that bill really confused me... lol

 

[Capt.Ron]

hey i've got a question

How exactly would all the Emotiva Professional gear fit into this whole equation?

All the things on that bill really confused me... lol

I wouldn't know. I'd never even heard of Emotiva until I found this forum.
And yes.....if that bill confuses you just imagine where I am on this!!!

 

[BMXTRIX]

The bill is very straightforward to me.

The house is broken into many rooms, and each room has equipment that is going to be installed - speakers, remote, TV, etc. They are all listed for each room with an accompanying price.

So, a room with a surround receiver (Onkyo), could have that surround receiver swapped out for another brand at any point (Emotiva, Denon, etc.)

Likewise, if it says "In-ceiling Control4 Speakers" - It could just as easily say "MP 8-inch In-Ceiling Speakers" - or "B&W THX Certified Speakers". You just swap out what is there with another make/model which costs more/less and has quality to match.

As I said, I would start with a basic setup, then wait for the budget to come back to finalize everything. This type of stuff should be properly budgeted up front, but it is always one of those things that gets pushed a bit far back. It's more like, even if you have the budget up front, other 'stuff' comes up and entertainment gets pushed to the side in favor of hardwood floors or really nice carpet padding, or special paint colors.

This type of stuff is what I specialize in, and it's definitely on the low end with the rooms/gear that is being installed compared to what I usually see. Relatively speaking, this setup is straightforward.

 

[Capt.Ron]

The bill is very straightforward to me.

The house is broken into many rooms, and each room has equipment that is going to be installed - speakers, remote, TV, etc. They are all listed for each room with an accompanying price.

So, a room with a surround receiver (Onkyo), could have that surround receiver swapped out for another brand at any point (Emotiva, Denon, etc.)

Likewise, if it says "In-ceiling Control4 Speakers" - It could just as easily say "MP 8-inch In-Ceiling Speakers" - or "B&W THX Certified Speakers". You just swap out what is there with another make/model which costs more/less and has quality to match.

As I said, I would start with a basic setup, then wait for the budget to come back to finalize everything. This type of stuff should be properly budgeted up front, but it is always one of those things that gets pushed a bit far back. It's more like, even if you have the budget up front, other 'stuff' comes up and entertainment gets pushed to the side in favor of hardwood floors or really nice carpet padding, or special paint colors.

This type of stuff is what I specialize in, and it's definitely on the low end with the rooms/gear that is being installed compared to what I usually see. Relatively speaking, this setup is straightforward.

Ok, that said would you (or anyone else) recommend anything different than the flush mount speakers.
It's been suggested (outside this forum) that I could get better sound from exterior mount speakers over the in ceiling speakers for the same relative cost.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I won't touch on that. There are (literally) thousands of options for speakers, and most sound about as good as what you pay for with just a few exceptions. The more you spend, the better things typically sound, and one of the biggest advantages to external speakers rather than in-wall/ceiling is that you don't get sound bleed-over into other rooms as easily. A speaker in a wall can be incredibly loud in the room right behind (or above) it.

But, lots of good box speakers.

On the other hand, I've used Monoprice speakers as in-walls and haven't really noticed them to sound much different than Sonance and Speakercraft speakers at more than twice the price.

So, you can definitely get the same sound quality for less money, on your own. But, then you should expect to install them yourself rather than having someone else do it. Likewise, if you have speaker wires buried in ceilings/walls, you aren't going to easily get away from in-wall/ceiling solutions right now because the system has been engineered for those walls to be opened up for speakers to be put in place.