Can someone model this driver for me?

[Matt34]

Dayton RSS390HF-4 15" in a sealed 3 cu/ft enclosure. Will use a Dayton SA1000 to power two of them. SMS-1 to EQ.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-468&scqty=2

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-811&scqty=1

Thanks.

 

[highfigh]

Dayton RSS390HF-4 15" in a sealed 3 cu/ft enclosure. Will use a Dayton SA1000 to power two of them. SMS-1 to EQ.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-468&scqty=2

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-811&scqty=1

Thanks.

WinISD is what I used and it says "JUST DO IT!".

Sorry.

It has a very slight rise that won't matter (.55dB is the maximum and the whole band of the rise is from 45Hz to about 145Hz) . The Qtc is .87- use dense/heavy damping, not just a thin layer of polyfill on one wall. -3dB is 31.62Hz.

 

[riverwolf]

No modelling software in the office, but you do realize you're only going to get about 250 watts per driver max? The SA1000 is just a plate amp in a rack mount cabinet. As such, it probably doesn't like 2 ohm loads so you'll need to wire the 390HFs in series to show an 8 ohm load to the 1000.

-Brent

 

[highfigh]

No modelling software in the office, but you do realize you're only going to get about 250 watts per driver max? The SA1000 is just a plate amp in a rack mount cabinet. As such, it probably doesn't like 2 ohm loads so you'll need to wire the 390HFs in series to show an 8 ohm load to the 1000.

-Brent

From the manual, "(0.92 % THD) 497 Watts* into 8 ohms, 950 Watts* into 4 ohms
*Based on one-third power duty cycle"

With two woofers, that just might be enough.

 

[GranteedEV]

From the manual, "(0.92 % THD) 497 Watts* into 8 ohms, 950 Watts* into 4 ohms
*Based on one-third power duty cycle"

With two woofers, that just might be enough.

the EQ is where headroom might become an issue.

 

[highfigh]

the EQ is where headroom might become an issue.

Not if it's used and set up correctly. If it's set up so it adds gain, it's a problem but that's not the correct way to use an equalizer.

 

[Matt34]

Thanks, I could pick up an EP4000 instead. I would eventually go quads if I decide on this setup, Also looking at a Maelstrom-X 18" but I haven't decided if I want a 9 cu/ft box in my living room.

 

[GranteedEV]

Four 15s? At full tilt with that would certainly pressurize your room

I'd also consider modeling the Soundsplinter RLP18...

 

[riverwolf]

From the manual, "(0.92 % THD) 497 Watts* into 8 ohms, 950 Watts* into 4 ohms
*Based on one-third power duty cycle"

With two woofers, that just might be enough.

It really all depends on one's required output levels. In terms of SPL, a single 390HF would probably do me fine.

The "problem" with duals on the SA1000 is you leave excursion on the table in each driver. I wouldn't hesitate to feed a single 390HF in 3 ft^3 with a 500 watt amp and I like to amp limit my designs...even an SA1000 per driver would probably be safe. Add in the fact that the proposed alignment will be more like a 5 ohm load at 20Hz rising to 17 ohms at 36Hz so that when you series a pair you're not going to even get the 497@8 in the spec.

Matt, you might also want to take a look at the new Peavey IPR? series. Similar real world power to the 4000, maybe even a bit less $$$...only 7 lbs, class D, and the fans hardly ever comes on during home use according to users over at AVS.

BTW, WinISD says you're looking at a Q of .858, f3=33Hz, and f10=21Hz. I'd stuff it with some fiberglass to get the Q down a bit more. You need 5.5 ft^3 to get the Q down to .71, f3=31Hz, f10=18...stuffing won't get you there, maybe 25%-30% effective increase at most. Should work nicely with a little room gain.

-Brent

 

[highfigh]

It really all depends on one's required output levels. In terms of SPL, a single 390HF would probably do me fine.

The "problem" with duals on the SA1000 is you leave excursion on the table in each driver. I wouldn't hesitate to feed a single 390HF in 3 ft^3 with a 500 watt amp and I like to amp limit my designs...even an SA1000 per driver would probably be safe. Add in the fact that the proposed alignment will be more like a 5 ohm load at 20Hz rising to 17 ohms at 36Hz so that when you series a pair you're not going to even get the 497@8 in the spec.

Of course it depends on the person's required output level but if extreme SPL is required, a consumer driver isn't going to be the best choice, will it? The Dayton does 90dB@2.83V/1M, so 500W will be close to 117dB with the Dayton amp and that will be higher if it's close to boundaries. Whose ears will survive this?

"Leave excursion on the table"? Does this mean the speaker won't move through it's "full" range? That's not a problem.

 

[riverwolf]

Of course it depends on the person's required output level but if extreme SPL is required, a consumer driver isn't going to be the best choice, will it? The Dayton does 90dB@2.83V/1M, so 500W will be close to 117dB with the Dayton amp and that will be higher if it's close to boundaries. Whose ears will survive this?

"Leave excursion on the table"? Does this mean the speaker won't move through it's "full" range? That's not a problem.

Specs are like statistics...;-) Judging by the frequency response graph on the spec sheet, the sensitivity measurement is for output above 100Hz taken in free air, hardly subwoofer territory. The box dominates sensitivity for subwoofers. The 315HF is displacement limited to 102dB@20, 109dB@30 and 114dB@40Hz. It levels off around 117dB@50 with 500 watts, where you'll start finding the thermal limits before you reach the excursion limits.

A driver's a driver. The Iron Law for subs is low, loud, small...pick 2. PA oriented drivers, which appears to be what you're hinting at with the "consumer driver" comment, are biased towards loud and use relatively small cabinets for the driver size, but they don't need to get much below 40Hz...the lowest note on a standard 4 string bass is at 42Hz, kick drum fundamentals are typically in the 50-60Hz range. There is no free lunch although high excursion drivers with gobs of power can give that impression.

And I agree, one should be enough to keep up with the mains into hearing damage territory in a properly calibrated system. However, Matt has expressed the desire to ultimately have 4 so leaving unused output in the first pair due to underpowering wouldn't appear to meet his design goals. Not to mention, the IPR @ $299 is considerably cheaper than the SA1000 @ $400ish while providing twice the power. His goal could also be to get single digit response, which to be felt, needs gobs of displacement, EQ, and power even if the >20Hz output is kept at OSHA approved levels.

-Brent

 

[gregz]

...the lowest note on a standard 4 string bass is at 42Hz, kick drum fundamentals are typically in the 50-60Hz range.

Nice breakdown. For some reason I had it in my mind that bass guitars were able to reach down into the 30's. In primarily acoustic music, the lows always seem so much lower than they really are.

 

[highfigh]

Nice breakdown. For some reason I had it in my mind that bass guitars were able to reach down into the 30's. In primarily acoustic music, the lows always seem so much lower than they really are.

The low E on a bass is 41.2Hz and unless it's de-tuned or it has a low B string, it's not going into the 30s unless it's a sub-harmonic or they're playing two notes and the beat frequency is down there.

 

[Matt34]

Specs are like statistics...;-) Judging by the frequency response graph on the spec sheet, the sensitivity measurement is for output above 100Hz taken in free air, hardly subwoofer territory. The box dominates sensitivity for subwoofers. The 315HF is displacement limited to 102dB@20, 109dB@30 and 114dB@40Hz. It levels off around 117dB@50 with 500 watts, where you'll start finding the thermal limits before you reach the excursion limits.

A driver's a driver. The Iron Law for subs is low, loud, small...pick 2. PA oriented drivers, which appears to be what you're hinting at with the "consumer driver" comment, are biased towards loud and use relatively small cabinets for the driver size, but they don't need to get much below 40Hz...the lowest note on a standard 4 string bass is at 42Hz, kick drum fundamentals are typically in the 50-60Hz range. There is no free lunch although high excursion drivers with gobs of power can give that impression.

And I agree, one should be enough to keep up with the mains into hearing damage territory in a properly calibrated system. However, Matt has expressed the desire to ultimately have 4 so leaving unused output in the first pair due to underpowering wouldn't appear to meet his design goals. Not to mention, the IPR @ $299 is considerably cheaper than the SA1000 @ $400ish while providing twice the power. His goal could also be to get single digit response, which to be felt, needs gobs of displacement, EQ, and power even if the >20Hz output is kept at OSHA approved levels.

-Brent

Yup, I'm looking for overkill to the point I can run near reference levels down as low as I can with plenty of reserve using multiple subs for the flattest FR across the room......all this within a meager budget (I figure less than $1000/pr).

 

[GranteedEV]

kick drum fundamentals are typically in the 50-60Hz range.

I think i read somewhere that a real kick drum is more like 35hz...people are just so accustomed to intentional distortion in amplified performances and mixed recordings.

is there any truth to this?

 

[highfigh]

I think i read somewhere that a real kick drum is more like 35hz...people are just so accustomed to intentional distortion in amplified performances and mixed recordings.

is there any truth to this?

The frequency of a kick drum depends on the head(s) and how it's tuned, but it's probably pretty close to that. Most drummers don't use the big kick drums anymore because they mic most of their drums and a 24" diameter head causes problems with the PA (smaller systems usually can't handle it).

 

[TLS Guy]

Dayton RSS390HF-4 15" in a sealed 3 cu/ft enclosure. Will use a Dayton SA1000 to power two of them. SMS-1 to EQ.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-468&scqty=2

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-811&scqty=1

Thanks.

This driver is already modeled on my web site.

You will need to Eq 12db per octave below 40 Hz.

If you want to build a killer sub use two of those drivers in isobarik configuration in a vented box.

 

[riverwolf]

Yup, I'm looking for overkill to the point I can run near reference levels down as low as I can with plenty of reserve using multiple subs for the flattest FR across the room......all this within a meager budget (I figure less than $1000/pr).

You might want to look at DIYCable's Tempest-X2. Essentially twice the displacement of the 390HF for about $85 more than the 390HF. You should still be able to fit under your $1000/pair budget, including amp...depending on how elaborate your enclosure is. Creative Sound is also working on an SDX15 Mk2 which will have 34mm of one way Xmax, but price and availability hadn't been announced the last time I checked. The original SDX15 had 30mm Xmax and was designed for small boxes...Q=.748 in 3 ft^3 sealed.

BTW, in post #11, those output numbers were for a 390HF, not 315HF as written, but I'm beyond the edit window.

-Brent

 

[Matt34]

So after some more research and the recommendations here I'm changing up my plan and thinking either a dual opposed setup or possibly a push-pull (non-isobarik) configuration. AE15-x or Tempest x2 15 for the drivers. Push-pull seems interesting and will help keep the size down since I don't know what we will be moving into in Colorado.

Something like this maybe:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/sealed-subwoofer-build-projects/28747-acoustic-elegance-dual-12-diy-sub-3.html


Another reason for this is I want to stick to a single sub (for now) because I'm going to have someone else (Elemental Designs, AE) do the enclosure so it actually looks nice but will be an added expense.

 

[TLS Guy]

So after some more research and the recommendations here I'm changing up my plan and thinking either a dual opposed setup or possibly a push-pull (non-isobarik) configuration. AE15-x or Tempest x2 15 for the drivers. Push-pull seems interesting and will help keep the size down since I don't know what we will be moving into in Colorado.

Something like this maybe:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/sealed-subwoofer-build-projects/28747-acoustic-elegance-dual-12-diy-sub-3.html


Another reason for this is I want to stick to a single sub (for now) because I'm going to have someone else (Elemental Designs, AE) do the enclosure so it actually looks nice but will be an added expense.

Push pull will not keep the size down. In that configuration Vas is doubled and enclosure size is therefore doubled. Only an Isobarik configuration will halve Vas.