Replacing Fiberglass in Speakers

[Ares]

Hello AHers,

Yesterday I moved everything out of the HT room to do some painting in there which went off without a hitch, as I was moving the speakers back in I noticed some rattling in each one including the sub. My daughter left me some presents in the form of toys which where stuffed into the ports, no big deal in my mind I'll just open them up and retrieve the items.

I opened the first speaker up and to my surprise they used fiberglass as stuffing there is nothing covering it to keep fibers from moving around which concerns me so I got suited up just to get some toys out of my speakers. I would like to remove the fiberglass and replace it with polyfill if I do this would it have an adverse affect on my speakers?

Thank You

Tony.

 

[highfigh]

Hello AHers,

Yesterday I moved everything out of the HT room to do some painting in there which went off without a hitch, as I was moving the speakers back in I noticed some rattling in each one including the sub. My daughter left me some presents in the form of toys which where stuffed into the ports, no big deal in my mind I'll just open them up and retrieve the items.

I opened the first speaker up and to my surprise they used fiberglass as stuffing there is nothing covering it to keep fibers from moving around which concerns me so I got suited up just to get some toys out of my speakers. I would like to remove the fiberglass and replace it with polyfill if I do this would it have an adverse affect on my speakers?

Thank You

Tony.

It's fiberglass, not pink or brown asbestos- it's not that bad unless someone has extreme sensitivity. Also, it's long fibers, so it's not bad unless some are expelled from the ports. If you want, get some muslin and put it over the port on the inside of the box, but even that could affect the tuning, slightly. Fiberglass is more dense than poly fill, too.

 

[Ares]

It's fiberglass, not pink or brown asbestos- it's not that bad unless someone has extreme sensitivity. Also, it's long fibers, so it's not bad unless some are expelled from the ports. If you want, get some muslin and put it over the port on the inside of the box, but even that could affect the tuning, slightly. Fiberglass is more dense than poly fill, too.

I have noticed that there are fibers at the bottom of the ports, I'm not to concerned about me or my wife but with my three year old it's a whole other matter, it's something I rather not take a chance on when it comes to her.

As I made mentioned to every speaker has some fiber that came loose at the bottom of the ports except the sub my guess for this is that it's wrapped in fabric and that the port tubes run almost the entire length of the sub.

 

[Alex2507]

Dude, if you want a new sub or two ... just go buy them. This is Audioholics after all.
We're not your wife.

 

[Ares]

Dude, if you want a new sub or two ... just go buy them. This is Audioholics after all. We're not you wife.

Leave it to you to come in here and try to convince me to get a new sub or two or three or maybe four.

 

[Alex2507]

I've seen an Acoustics Research sub like that and Pioneer HPM-100 speakers were like that too. They line air ducts with that stuff. I believe the little you saw is the accumulation of what fibers got loose after maybe years. A non issue if you will. I understand trying to protect your child and yourself though and taking stuff apart is kinda fun.

Take some pic's and walk us through it. I think you want some dense mineral wool or OC703 for that. Not too much though. Between here and HTS you'll find out everything you ever needed. Just remember ... pic's.

 

[sholling]

I think I'd just vacuum out the lose fibers and leave well enough alone.

 

[Ares]

Since Alex asked for pics here are some of one of the T45's so guys will get a better ideal of what I was talking about, just to clarify my worry is more with the T45's, C60 and the B15's then with the 6i since PSB has taken a great deal of caution by wrapping the fiberglass with fabric in the 6i.

Here you can see the fiberglass which are three 2" thick pieces rolled up which runs from the tweeter to the 2nd woofer.

Here is the inside of the box from the first woofers position as you can see there is nothing on the sidewalls and the fiberglass is in the back of the enclosure the port tube is curved.

Here's a closer look at the tube, if look down you can see some bracing and if you look really close you can see some fiberglass particles on the inside upper half of the tube wall.

Here is the port for the 2nd woofer as you can see there is some particles of fiberglass on the walls.

Here is the inside of the enclosure from the 2nd woofer's POV there is another roll of fiberglass and at the top it looks and feels like felt.

This one was just for kicks as you can see there is another brace just like the first one at the top of the enclosure also there is no fiberglass or any type of dampening to speak of.

Here another one from the same location but from a different angle, as you can see in the background there's the crossover and still no dampening material to found.

 

[jostenmeat]

I wouldn't worry about it either. You can wipe or vacuum periodically. Maybe someone will come up with a reason not to, but what about loosely wrapping the fiberglass in there with some AT fabric? This would bypass any slight tuning difference that highfigh brought up? A yard is about $10. I dunno. Otherwise, I'd contact PSB directly with this query. The one time I contacted them via email, I was impressed with the advice, as it seemed a bit more comprehensive than what I was expecting.

 

[Shiitaki]

Fiberglass or Fiberfill is good

Unless you think someone will be pulling the fiberglass through the ports, you should be fine. If you really want to though, fiberglass and fiberfill do the same thing, convert some of the acoustic energy into heat. If you do replace it, use a similar amount. Using a little adhesive to hold either in place, to keep it away from the port could be good.

 

[sholling]

After looking at those pictures I'd just leave well enough alone.

 

[Ares]

I wouldn't worry about it either. You can wipe or vacuum periodically. Maybe someone will come up with a reason not to, but what about loosely wrapping the fiberglass in there with some AT fabric? This would bypass any slight tuning difference that highfigh brought up? A yard is about $10. I dunno. Otherwise, I'd contact PSB directly with this query. The one time I contacted them via email, I was impressed with the advice, as it seemed a bit more comprehensive than what I was expecting.

Hello Josten,

I was thinking of wrapping the glass since they are in rolls, I thought the tuning difference that Highfigh was referring to had to do with placing fabric over the port. So an other material let's say like cotton can possibly effect the enclosure's tuning? reason I ask is the wife likes to make pillows and things of that nature and the fabric she uses is the same stuff that T-shirts are made out of she has yards of that stuff lying around.

Hello Sholl,

Why would you leave it alone? could you please explain.

 

[TLS Guy]

Since Alex asked for pics here are some of one of the T45's so guys will get a better ideal of what I was talking about, just to clarify my worry is more with the T45's, C60 and the B15's then with the 6i since PSB has taken a great deal of caution by wrapping the fiberglass with fabric in the 6i.

Here you can see the fiberglass which are three 2" thick pieces rolled up which runs from the tweeter to the 2nd woofer.

Here is the inside of the box from the first woofers position as you can see there is nothing on the sidewalls and the fiberglass is in the back of the enclosure the port tube is curved.

Here's a closer look at the tube, if look down you can see some bracing and if you look really close you can see some fiberglass particles on the inside upper half of the tube wall.

Here is the port for the 2nd woofer as you can see there is some particles of fiberglass on the walls.

Here is the inside of the enclosure from the 2nd woofer's POV there is another roll of fiberglass and at the top it looks and feels like felt.

This one was just for kicks as you can see there is another brace just like the first one at the top of the enclosure also there is no fiberglass or any type of dampening to speak of.

Here another one from the same location but from a different angle, as you can see in the background there's the crossover and still no dampening material to found.

That is absolutely the wrong way to damp a ported speaker. It is typical of the junk out there these days.

 

[Ares]

That is absolutely the wrong way to damp a ported speaker. It is typical of the junk out there these days.

What would you recommend here TLS?

 

[Alex2507]

What would you recommend here TLS?

He wants that you should give me all your gear and then go out and buy yourself something nice.

 

[Ares]

He wants that you should give me all your gear and then go out and buy yourself something nice.

Hey, focus on getting Dave to give you his Integra first then you can work your way back to me.

 

[Swerd]

This thread is a classic example of

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!

If the manufacturer chose to fill a ported bass reflex cabinet with fiberglass, so be it, even it is not considered the standard way to treat a bass reflex cabinet. This has been done before, with success.

If you replace the fiberglass with polyfil or any other material with different acoustic absorbance properties, you risk changing the bass performance of the woofer/cabinet combination. Assuming that the manufacturer knew more about it than you do (more often than not, this is a safe assumption) you risk degrading the performance of your speakers. Fiberglass and polyfil do not absorb sound waves the same amount. Usually it requires more polyfil to accomplish the same amount of absorbance as it does for fiberglass. So replacing fiberglass with an equal amount of polyfil will fail to perform the same as what the manufacturer originally did. To do this, you would be in essence retuning the bass performance of your speakers. If you have no experience in doing this, just remember that your speakers are not broken, and as such you should avoid trying to fix them.

And finally, your original premise that fiberglass is dangerous and must be removed from your home, is false. There is no evidence that fiberglass dangerous or risky. And people have studied this question intensly. Evidence has been examined from factories that produce the stuff, where workers are exposed to much higher amounts of airborn particles than is possible in your home with your speakers. The answer is that no health risk has been identifyable. Please remember that fiberglass is not at all similar to asbestos fibers.

I personally find that fiberglass mildly irritates my skin if I handle it, and because of that I try to avoid using it. But if you remove it from your speakers, you will expose yourself and others in your house to far more fibers than if you leave it in your speakers.

I've given three reasons why you should leave the fiberglass in your speakers. If you simply cannot stand the idea of fiberglass in your home, despite what I said above, you might consider replacing your speakers with something else that has no fiberglass in them.

 

[Alex2507]

Fiberglass causes brain cancer. I'll PM you my address.

 

[Rickster71]

That looks like the non-itch fiberglass.
Some insulation companies wrap it in 4-mil polyethylene that's perforated. Owens-Corning has one called Miraflex that feels soft to the touch and isn't wrapped.

 

[Swerd]

Fiberglass causes brain cancer. I'll PM you my address.

I am aware of the unsubstantiated internet claims of this. All I can say is that nothing they say is credible, and I seriously doubt these claims.

Formaldehyde contained in the binders that sometimes are included in fiberglass is known to be dangerous, but the danger comes from breathing formaldehyde vapors or its breakdown products, and not from fiberglass particles.

Professional Disclaimer: I do not work for or represent - in any capacity - the fiberglass industry. I do work as a scientist in the field of cancer research, and I can quickly read and assess the scientific literature in fields that I normally don't watch. Trust me, there is no evidence of any serious health risk from inhaling small amounts of fiberglass.