Apartment setup tips, have details + diagram

[j.reddick]

I apologize in advance for the wall of text... Also, sorry about no actual links and no embedded picture, it won't let me until my post count is higher =/
I recently purchased the Onkyo HT-S6300 HTIB. I'm loving the whole package, but I have noticed a couple of things that I would like improve upon if possible.

The main thing I am experiencing is sound localization. To be specific, the two side speakers feel fairly localized, primarily in video games, but to a certain extent in movies as well.

The back speakers often seem as though they aren't producing much sound, especially during video games, but changing the speaker level hasn't seemed to have much effect. If I turn and face the back speakers, they are definitely producing sound at a good level, but they seem to be masked by the side speakers. I would like to be able to locate sounds coming from behind me if I pay attention to them.

Right now, the rear speakers are only really noticeable during video games if something is directly behind me, and I generally can't tell the different in the back left and back right, even though I have tested and made sure that the actual transition from each speaker is quit fluid.


The diagram below shows the approximate layout of my apartment living room. Near the back speakers I actually have two computer desks. Potentially the room could be reversed if needed (rotate 180º for the setup).

i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/j_reddick/Surround-Setup-1.jpg?t=1286331706

Although I didn't list the distances, the left and right side speakers are approximately 5 - 5.5 feet from my solo listening position. The side speakers are located about 2.5 feet above ear level (mid section of the speaker). The rear speakers are located approximately 2 feet above ear level. The location of the sub is also not listed, but is unimportant to this post as I am very happy with the current bass output and diffusion.


Right now, I have two theories as to my issues. Don't get me wrong, the speaker definitely sound great, I suppose I'm just a bit picky about sound location.

First, I believe the side speakers may be located too close, so it is difficult for the sound to diffuse much before reaching me. Furthermore, I believe the "washed out" sound from the back speakers may be masked by the side speakers. To illustrate my point, if you were to draw a straight line from the back speakers, they would pass by the side speakers only about 1 foot or so in front. In other words, they are spread very far out to the edges of my room, but mounted on the back wall (command strips currently, as I didn't want to make anything too "permanent" until making sure it sounded good.)

I believe that the back speakers being spread out so far makes it harder to notice the direction of the sound, since they are so close in line with the side speakers, and the side speakers are already too localized.

Now, I have noticed that the side speakers are significantly more localized during video games than movies (they sound pretty darn good during movies, but still slightly localized). I read an answer from an Audyssey rep regarding Dynamic EQ and video games.

(You can view it: ask.audyssey.com/entries/226396-dynamic-eq-makes-surround-speakers-far-too-loud)

His answer seems to make sense and I am about to go and try turning that off for a video game and see if it makes a difference.

Any tips in layout would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch for reading, and I apologize for so much text!

 

[j.reddick]

Well, I continued testing my speakers and interestingly enough, I have found the best results in games to be Direct or Dolby Digital and turning off the Audyssey Dynamic EQ. It sounds significantly better than anything I'd tried thus far, although I have not tried significant horizontal movement of the back speakers yet, as it's somewhat difficult with having two computers and a window along that wall.

I'm not sure if my receiver has poor 5.1 to 7.1 processing, if 5.1 to 7.1 processing is not extremely effective in general, or if I have horrible placement for my rear speakers. Bioshock 1 and 2, Fable 2, and Darksiders all sound amazing using the Dolby Digital 5.1 setting instead of Dolby EX, DTS Neo 6, or Dolby PL IIx. I am better able to feel the spatial awareness and the back fill is absolutely not lacking, even though my side speakers are at 90º.

As for movies, it's kind of a toss up. Some tests sounded better using Dobly EX, DTS Neo, or PL IIx, some sounded better using Direct or Dolby Digital setting.

I cannot say for sure if it's my speaker location, my room layout, poor receiver performance, poor settings, or a combination that causes my 7.1 to sound bad in comparison with the 5.1, but I'm tempted to use the Zone 2 feature and put the two rear speakers in the bedroom, or to use them for front height speakers. If I can find a better layout and make them sound better, I will definitely use the 7.1, but right now it might be more worth it to just use 5.1.

I've heard that in small rooms, 7.1 is often not worth it, or sometimes difficult to set up properly, so my room might just not work well for it.


Any input is still greatly appreciated.

 

[MDS]

7.1 may be too much for a small room. With 5.1, you're still going to get that sense of sound coming from behind you due to reflections off the walls. Your surround speakers at 90 degrees and a few feet above ear level are exactly where they are supposed to be.

But, have you done any level setting, either manually with an SPL meter and the receiver's test tones or with the auto-setup of the receiver (if it has one)? Getting the levels equal on all channels is very important. After doing the calibration, if the side surrounds are still too loud and easily localizable, knock them down a decibel or two.

Keep in mind too that some soundtracks make extensive use of the surrounds and some not much at all, so that is another factor that makes it difficult to get it to always sound great regardless of what you are playing.

 

[j.reddick]

Your surround speakers at 90 degrees and a few feet above ear level are exactly where they are supposed to be.

But, have you done any level setting, either manually with an SPL meter and the receiver's test tones or with the auto-setup of the receiver (if it has one)? Getting the levels equal on all channels is very important. After doing the calibration, if the side surrounds are still too loud and easily localizable, knock them down a decibel or two.

I originally calibrated them using the Audyssey MultEQ or whatever it is that is included. It did a nice job of locating the distance of the speakers and such.

After a couple more hours of testing last night, I actually found that the side localization is only a problem when using 7.1 settings. When I use 5.1, the side speakers sound awesome and actually do a better job of rear spacial awareness in video games than the 7.1 does. I'm guessing that my room size and dimensions just don't work well for the additional rear speakers, however I am very glad I purchased this as I have the 7.1 for when they become more popular on movies and for when I move into a house.