I thought DENON was reliable?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I wouldn't write ecost off over this, it could just have easily happened to a brand new unit, and it's not like ecost tests these units when they receive them from Denon. The denons they sell are all mfgr. refurbished, so if anyone is to blame here it's Denon, as ecost just facilitates the sale. I've not had any issues with the Denon receiver I bought from them, and my parents Denon from them is still working great too. It's just the risk you take to save money, if you want the best service and easy returns, buy from a local high end dealer and spend a lot more money... I'm willing to deal with some hassle if the need arises for the sake of saving several hundred dollars.

I've purchased a couple yamaha receivers from ebay, and I figured if I have no issues with it during it's warranty period, then I made a wise decision.

As long as the AVR is less than $500.

I'm still willing to buy from ecost, but only if it's around $500.

There is no way I'm buying anything over $500 from ecost now.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

but if they won't even exchange it for another unit, that is extreme!

I didn't even offer an exchange!

They said I could not return the item because it was "refurbished"!!!

Their return policy for new is 30-day, & refurbished is 14-day.

Full of $hit!!

 

[GlocksRock]

As long as they make it right, I don't see why you would limit the purchase price to $500. But I'm glad they are taking care of you.

 

[KEW]

eCost:

Special Return Policy for Reconditioned Products
Reconditioned Defective Returns will be accepted for exchange or repair, at our discretion, within 14 days from the shipment date. No refunds or credit will be granted after 14 days, the terms of the manufacturer's warranty apply. Please contact the manufacturer directly. These products have been previously sold and returned, reconditioned by an Authorized Service Dealer and repackaged for selling purposes. eCOST.com cannot guarantee that these products come with all original accessories and software.

Accessories4less:

Return of Defective Items
Accessories4less allows you to return defective merchandise within 30 days of your purchase date. Please follow instructions above for "All Return Require Prior Authorization". Merchandise found to be non-defective may be subject to a 15% restocking fee. Additional fees will be assessed for missing hardware. Credit to your card may take up to 30 days to post after processing. Returned merchandise must arrive no later than 10 days after we provide you with a Return Authorization Number.

A4L will refund your money as their default policy (within 30 days).
eCost will repair or exchange as their default policy (within 14 days).

I wouldn't deal with eCost because their policy allows them to repair a DOA unit which translates to waiting weeks or possibly months before getting the repaired item back. I'm glad ADTG was a squeaky wheel and got them to follow their own policy!!!

More importantly, why is Denon using a company like eCost to sell this stuff?!

 

[GlocksRock]

eCost:


Accessories4less:


A4L will refund your money as their default policy (within 30 days).
eCost will repair or exchange as their default policy (within 14 days).

I wouldn't deal with eCost because their policy allows them to repair a DOA unit which translates to waiting weeks or possibly months before getting the repaired item back.

More importantly, why is Denon using a company like eCost to sell this stuff?!

Even more importantly, why is Denon sending out refurbished items that are defective?

 

[KEW]

Even more importantly, why is Denon sending out refurbished items that are defective?

My money is on shipping damage.

I have to believe Denon has a checklist just as Marantz did on the unit I bought. However, all thing considered, I wouldn't be willing to champion Denon as a stand-up company!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Denon blames it on Ecost & Dakmart, and they blame it on Denon.

Remember my experience with onecall?

I bought a BRAND NEW AVP-A1 and it had SCRATCHES on it!

Onecall says it is Denon's fault - that the AVP-A1 was absolutely brand new!

Who is to blame?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As long as they make it right, I don't see why you would limit the purchase price to $500. But I'm glad they are taking care of you.

That has just been my personal experience with them...maybe I should edit that to say any DENON over $500!

I've been a good customer of Ecost for a few years now, buying laptops, TVs, Amps, Media players, AVRs from them. But this experience has scared me.

 

[KEW]

Denon blames it on Ecost & Dakmart, and they blame it on Denon.

Who is to blame?

I hate to keep bringing up Accessories4less, but Marantz and Denon should be taking advantage of each other's experiences and connections.
A4L doesn't worry about who - they just take care of it!

Unfortunately A4L tops out with the AV8003 and MM8003:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARAV8003B/Marantz/Av8003-Networking-Av-Preamp/processor/1.html
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARMM8003B/Marantz/Mm8003-8-Channel-Power-Amplifier/1.html

Does anyone know who carries Marantz's refurbished high end stuff?

 

[Seth=L]

ADTG has a means to push his weight around. Having made several purchases from Ecost before they probably considered that factor. They also don't like receiving black marks and a written pounding (which they appear to be getting anyway). I've never been interested in purchasing an item from eCost. Maybe the name has something to do with that (I think having the word "cost" in your name implies I'm spending more money than I would like to be).

Accessories4less, while hard to remember sometimes, has a much nicer ring to it. I've heard much less grief about them than I have about eCost as well.

 

[TLS Guy]

My money is on shipping damage.

I have to believe Denon has a checklist just as Marantz did on the unit I bought. However, all thing considered, I wouldn't be willing to champion Denon as a stand-up company!

I doubt it. I think a refurb is a risk. In these money grubbing years, I doubt they put much time into these returned defective units. I bet they just replace the blown board. If it works fine, if not they chuck it. Most of the time this probably works for the consumer. However if there is a subtle problem with the power supply say, then the unit may work for test, but blow as soon as it gets the customer or soon after.

i just don't see how it could be cost effective to thoroughly service a returned complex receiver. So you know its all done on the fly.

I would never buy a returned refurbished costly complex piece of electronics. Most likely you will get away with it, but there is a good chance you won't. I would say the higher the cost of the unit, the greater the odds of falling out of bed with the purchase.

 

[GlocksRock]

Not every refurbished item has had damage or needed repair, I bet a good number are store returns that are sent back to the manufacturer.

 

[TLS Guy]

Not every refurbished item has had damage or needed repair, I bet a good number are store returns that are sent back to the manufacturer.

Yes, but you don't know you are going to get one of those do you?

 

[KEW]

I doubt it. I think a refurb is a risk. In these money grubbing years, I doubt they put much time into these returned defective units. I bet they just replace the blown board. If it works fine, if not they chuck it. Most of the time this probably works for the consumer. However if there is a subtle problem with the power supply say, then the unit may work for test, but blow as soon as it gets the customer or soon after.

i just don't see how it could be cost effective to thoroughly service a returned complex receiver. So you know its all done on the fly.

I would never buy a returned refurbished costly complex piece of electronics. Most likely you will get away with it, but there is a good chance you won't. I would say the higher the cost of the unit, the greater the odds of falling out of bed with the purchase.

You make a good point.

I liked the way Marantz handled it on the refurbed units I bought - they enclosed a list of what was checked. As you are suggesting, this was by no means every feature or every configuration (I can't imagine the length of that list). The nice thing is they gave full disclosure on what they did (and, thereby, did not) check.

I don't think I'd want to take the risk on high dollar equipment. In my case I paid $350 for a SR6001 with 30 days defective return and 1 year manufacturers warranty. For me that was an easy gamble and I appreciate the folks here who steered me in that direction. Since I only use it as a 2.1 music receiver, there is a lot that could go wrong and I would be blissfully ignorant!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I hate to keep bringing up Accessories4less, but Marantz and Denon should be taking advantage of each other's experiences and connections.
A4L doesn't worry about who - they just take care of it!

Unfortunately A4L tops out with the AV8003 and MM8003:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARAV8003B/Marantz/Av8003-Networking-Av-Preamp/processor/1.html
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARMM8003B/Marantz/Mm8003-8-Channel-Power-Amplifier/1.html

Does anyone know who carries Marantz's refurbished high end stuff?

I've bought from both Dakmart & Ecost in past, but never from Accessories4less.

I think it's time for a change.

Let's see what I can buy for my first time on A4L?

It's shopping time.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, but you don't know you are going to get one of those do you?

Let me tell you guys my record with Ecost refurbished items:

1) 1 SACD player - worked fine

2) 1 PMA2000 - worked fine

3) 1 Panasonic toughbook CF-29 laptop - worked fine

4) 1 LCD HDTV/monitor - worked fine

5) 1 AVR-2308 - worked fine

6) 1 AVR-4308 - Dead on arrival

7) 1 AVR-4810 - Dead on arrival

8) 1 AVP-A1HD - Dead on arrival

5 out of 8 worked = 62.5%
3/8 DOA = 37.5%

If someone told me right off the bat that I have a 38% of getting a DOA component from Ecost, there is no way in hell I would buy anything from them!

The fact is (maybe just coincidence) those 5 working items are all < $500 each.

Now with that Denon Tech Michael telling me that Dakmart has A LOT of complaints from Denon customers about DOA components, I would not order from Dakmart ever again because their price is higher than Ecost to begin with.

I think the take-home message is that when it comes to REFURBISHED items, perhaps it is wise to only buy items that are "low price".

If you are spending > $1,000, it might not be a good idea to buy refurbished.

Sometimes amazon will have a brand new AVR @ 57% off retail. Look for those deals instead.

 

[jostenmeat]

My refurbed Onkyo 805 is on its 3rd year, from Onkyo Shop.

My refurbed NAD mch amp is on its 4th year, from local dealer.

My electrostat stereo speakers were demos. My PJ was open box. I got some PSB speakers at blemished price, but he gave me perfect ones instead. Mmm. My Crown amp arrived damaged, got it replaced. My Danley kit's box was a bit ravaged, but luckily everything was fine. Hmm. Oh, 10 of my 15 acoustic panels were bought used. Umm. I think that's it. Wait, my Cambridge integrated was had for a steal because the second gen was on the shelves. I think I roughly save about 40% overall with the demos/openbox/used/refurbed/superceded. The sub saved me 2k, but that's simply because it's a kit.

I have nothing at all die on me yet except for several buttons on my POS Harmony remote (will never buy one again I think). URC is better for less money IMO.

 

[KEW]

Let me tell you guys my record with Ecost refurbished items:

1) 1 SACD player - worked fine

2) 1 PMA2000 - worked fine

3) 1 Panasonic toughbook CF-29 laptop - worked fine

4) 1 LCD HDTV/monitor - worked fine

5) 1 AVR-2308 - worked fine

6) 1 AVR-4308 - Dead on arrival

7) 1 AVR-4810 - Dead on arrival

8) 1 AVP-A1HD - Dead on arrival

Is that also the sequence in which you bought them?
If so, you can't rule out that eCost might have changed business philosophy/managers/owners and moved to a short term profit policy.

I have seen many companies determine mangers bonuses based on their bottom line profit for the past year. This encourages managers to sacrifice customer support in order to maximize short term profit. It is a poor strategy for a business that wants to be around 5-10 years later.

 

[indulger]

I've had good luck with 1Onecall. I ordered a open box 4310ci. I guess they ran out after I ordered and sent me a new one. Unfortunately, it suffered from a network problem 30 days into listening to it. So I sent it back for an exchange. I figured this time they would send me a refurb, but again they sent me a brand spanking new one instead. No hassles and very good to work with. I was only out shipping, but I used my office FedEx for a huge discount.

 

[M Code]

Let me tell you guys my record with Ecost refurbished items:

1) 1 SACD player - worked fine

2) 1 PMA2000 - worked fine

3) 1 Panasonic toughbook CF-29 laptop - worked fine

4) 1 LCD HDTV/monitor - worked fine

5) 1 AVR-2308 - worked fine

6) 1 AVR-4308 - Dead on arrival

7) 1 AVR-4810 - Dead on arrival

8) 1 AVP-A1HD - Dead on arrival

5 out of 8 worked = 62.5%
3/8 DOA = 37.5%

If someone told me right off the bat that I have a 38% of getting a DOA component from Ecost, there is no way in hell I would buy anything from them!

The fact is (maybe just coincidence) those 5 working items are all < $500 each.

Now with that Denon Tech Michael telling me that Dakmart has A LOT of complaints from Denon customers about DOA components, I would not order from Dakmart ever again because their price is higher than Ecost to begin with.

I think the take-home message is that when it comes to REFURBISHED items, perhaps it is wise to only buy items that are "low price".

If you are spending > $1,000, it might not be a good idea to buy refurbished.

Sometimes amazon will have a brand new AVR @ 57% off retail. Look for those deals instead.

Ecost and Dakmart do not do the actual refurbishing, Denon has an outside 3rd party to do this. Ecost and Dakmart simply sell the refurbished products sold to them by Denon. If the products don't work when they reach the purchaser than either it was never fixed right or was handled roughly in transit and/or not packed properly.
The products that were received and didn't work..

• How were they packed?
• Did the units have the proper internal packing protection end caps?
• Was there a 2nd outer carton for shipping protection?
• Did the shipping cartons have any punched in corners?
• Were they shipped by UPS?

Note that majority of selling CE dealers do not ship by UPS as it is widely known they are very rough on handling products. UPS may be good for shipping chain saws and tooth paste but terrible for CE products.


Just my $0.02...