I Know Sub Placement is a Controversial Subject, But...

[TLS Guy]

As always, thanks for all the genuine replies, fellas; I appreciate the input...

I understand the nulls and peaks theory whereby these elements may be increased or decreased based on how the sub is firing and such -- still, is there any way to know if what is meant when it's suggested to "load your sub in the corner" is actually to place the enclosure towards the corner, or does that mean just get it near it? That's all I am trying to ascertain -- is that what's meant when you hear "drop that sub in the corner!" or is that more of a generalized statement to get the sub near the corner...?

I understand what the last poster means about moving the sub around to create slight changes with each movement -- I experienced that just moving my PSW350 a couple of inches to the left of where it was...suddenly, the bass was DRAMATICALLY reduced...

Loading the sub in a corner is synonymous with a degree of horn loading.

Yes, you need to open that link to gain understanding. A horn is the most efficient acoustic transformer known to man for converting air pressure to air displacement (movement).

So if you face your woofer into the corner, and leave only a narrow gaps to the corners, you have created a crude horn, using the walls of the room.

So the pressure in front of the cone will be increased in this location (loading), and the restriction at the edges convert this pressure into increased air motion.

So cone movement will be decreased by the pressure and the cone won't have to move as far to produce the same spl.

So you will have greater sound output for a given amp output to the sub woofer. Your F3 point may also be extended as much as half an octave.

Since your sub is a poor performer with significant limitations, the advantages of you loading your sub this way in the corner are likely to greatly exceed the disadvantages and get you by until you get a better sub.

Now these are technical issues and you throwing your hands in the air saying it is too difficult for you to understand, will cut no ice with me. You have Google and the start of an education at your finger tips.

So yes, stop acting like a helpless old woman with red socks on, and really start to genuinely understand the basic physics of sound reproduction. If you don't you will drive us all well and truly round the bend.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Dude, does this look familiar?

Dude, we've been over this already -- I'm NOT beating anything to death...let's stay on topic and NOT go there.

 

[croseiv]

Dude, we've been over this already -- I'm NOT beating anything to death...let's stay on topic and NOT go there.

Try it and see what happens (as far as corner placement). Direct observation will be better than theoretical suppositions.

 

[Pyrrho]

We've all heard the suggestion of dropping a sub into a corner-loaded placement in order to yield loud (but perhaps not particularly accurate), exaggerated bass, and I realize this subject has been debated from all sides ad nauseum, but I have a question regarding this theory that perhaps one of you 'holics can assist with...

When it's said "drop a sub into a corner," is it meant that the actual enclosure should fire at the corner, and the enclosure itself should be kind of katty-cornered against the wall, facing the actual corner? Or does this just mean place it straight against the wall of the main front speakers, just near the corner...?

I want to fiddle around with my PSW350 in order to squeeze some more LFE out of this thing before I can afford a new sub, but I'm wondering if the concept of "corner loading" actually means the port(s) should fire into the actual corner -- that is, the sub is positioned on a katty-cornered angle so that the wave actually fires into the corner...

Can someone shed some light on this? Could this potentially yield more slam from my PSW350?

I think it is generally used to mean that one place the subwoofer in the corner, with it facing its normal direction. As Matt34 has already observed, bass is not very directional. And, indeed, if it were, using a separate subwoofer would not work properly, because when that loud explosion is coming from the left of the screen, it should sound like it is coming from the left, and when it is coming from the right of the screen, it should sound like it is coming from the right. But if deep bass were directional, one would hear the deep parts always from the direction of the subwoofer, which could not always be the correct place.

Now, if you have a subwoofer that is not giving you enough bass to satisfy you, and it is not in a corner, there is a good chance that you can increase the overall amount of bass you have by sticking it in a corner. Naturally, buying numerous expensive and impressive subwoofers and carefully placing them in one's room is ideal, but few people can afford what is ideal, so for many people, they would get the best results by sticking their subwoofer in a corner. But since room acoustics vary, and since seating positions vary, there is no hard and fast absolute rule about this. The only way to be sure is to try it.

The problem, of course, is that one may not get flat bass that way. But if one's subwoofer is deficient otherwise, then one isn't getting the right bass anyway, so it may be the best option. Again, the only way to be sure is to try it out.

 

[bandphan]

The bottom line is the Crawl method works best if you don't want to spend money and time getting the most out of your gear. Simple if the sub is in your prime seating position and you find the area in the room that it sounds the best... BAM all done when you swap places with the sub.

 

[Alex2507]

So if you face your woofer into the corner, and leave only a narrow gaps to the corners, you have created a crude horn ...

This has the makings of a great fart joke.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I've just finished moving it into the corner I had in mind, keeping asthetics in mind as well as I katty-cornered the enclosure, so I'll report back after I fire it up later and test it, probably with War of the Worlds' DTS track...

 

[3db]

I'm about to board a plane for the UK, so I will be off line until sometime tomorrow if have questions.

We are celebrating my mother's 90th birthday on Saturday.

Congrats. That's cool.

 

[3db]

This has the makings of a great fart joke.

Opening a can of baked beans in tomatoe sauce..MMMMMMMM *oops* That was good.

 

[3db]

I've had the most unorthodox sub woofer placements. out of 4 homes that I owned since I had a sub, two of them were in the corner, one in front near the mains and one on the opposite wall from the mains clear cross the length of the room. My last two homes have ad me place the sub behind the couch, about a foot back. These locations were found by doing a pub crawl.. .ermm room crawl with the sub in the listener's position. In my current set-up, YPAO sees teh sub woofer about 6.5' feet away from the listener's position which is almost spot on.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

-- still, is there any way to know if what is meant when it's suggested to "load your sub in the corner" is actually to place the enclosure towards the corner, or does that mean just get it near it? That's all I am trying to ascertain -- is that what's meant when you hear "drop that sub in the corner!" or is that more of a generalized statement to get the sub near the corner...?

.

Any where near a corner is corner loaded, face it however you want, it doesn't matter.

Here is my corner loaded sub.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Any where near a corner is corner loaded, face it however you want, it doesn't matter.

Thanks so much, 'Dawg...this is more of what I was trying to ascertain with regard to this thread -- whether the direction of a "corner loaded" position mattered and what exactly was meant by corner placement (i.e. the ports firing into the actual corner or the enclosure just near a corner...). Thank you for this insight.

It's interesting that you shared your picture of your sub -- that's what I was asking in previous parts of this thread, wherein does corner loading mean it should just sit against the wall, but NEAR the actual corner (like yours) or if it meant placing it actually IN the corner; just last night, I experimented with my POS PSW350 and it yielded results very similar to what you picture in your reply above -- I am going to report on that now...

BTW, I see that your SVS looks like a front-firing enclosure, as the ports are on the same side as the woofer -- with the ports firing outward like that, away from the wall, how to the bass waves develop? Don't they need to "bounce" off something like a wall? This all plays into what I was going to report on next, but I just wanted to ask...

Also, you mentioned:

Face it however you want, it doesn't matter.

But based on what I found in my experiments last night, this didn't ring true for me -- I'll explain.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Okay, well, I experimented last night by putting my PSW350 katty-cornered so the ports fire directly into the actual corner (to the left of my left front channel, a Polk RTi12 tower) and ran the War of the Worlds DVD with the DTS track engaged -- I couldn't believe it, but there was a ridiculous drop in bass output from this position. I was expecting a massive increase in at least "boominess" without the benefit of control and tightness with the sub being directly in the corner, but I couldn't believe what I was experiencing -- the sequence in which the tripods explode out of the ground toward the beginning, and the mechanical arms and legs crash down on the cars and people, which is normally a scene that exhibits bone-crushing wallops of LFE, didn't have much impact AT ALL. I simply couldn't believe this.

So, a little while longer into the DVD, I stopped the disc and put the sub back to around where it was originally -- that is, out of the actual corner and closer to the left RTi12 main but flush with the wall my system and wall unit are on. I pushed the enclosure back a bit so the rear ports were a little closer to the wall, then I continued War of the Worlds. Suddenly, the impact and slam were much more defined now, with the room-shaking (well, the best this piece of crap sub can shake a room) effect that began rattling my wall decoration once again.

What's interesting about this also was the fact that as soon as I played the first action sequence with the sub in its moved position back along the front wall, my wife yelled down to me from the second floor loft (where our 2-channel system is; she was actually listening to the tuner and working on her laptop up there) and I paused the disc to ask her what she said -- she asked me if I had played with the sub's calibration levels or volume because the vibrations upstairs were ridiculous. I mentioned that I had only moved the sub back to around where it originally was -- she was actually concerned that something in the wall unit of hers might break from the vibrations (like the collector's plates she has in there, etc.).

The only thing I could get from all of this is the following...for some reason, with the sub pointing into the actual corner, this didn't develop enough bass energy for my room, perhaps because there was a good deal of space between the ports in the back and the actual corner, based on how I katty-cornered it. Further, when I moved it back to being along the front wall, closer to the left main speaker, I did close the gap between the ports and the wall, so I am thinking the wall is creating the barrier in which the bass waves are hitting and then transferring to the rest of the room. I don't really have another explanation for any of this, especially given the fact that direct corner-loading is supposed to dramatically make bass louder and boomier -- the opposite happened in my room. There was like a "hole" during some of those heavy LFE scenes, and it was just bewildering to me...

Anyone care to take a crack at why placing the sub directly in the corner, FIRING INTO the actual corner, yielded less tactile slam in my room as compared to moving it out of the actual corner and along the front wall shared with my left front main?

This one's really a head-scratcher...

 

[bandphan]

Dumb question what are your mains crossed at.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Dumb question what are your mains crossed at.

Not a dumb question at all, band -- my RTi12 towers are crossed over at 60Hz, based on what I was suggested because of these speakers' capabilities and size.

I'm thinking it could be an issue of the phase -- I have it at 0 degrees, but perhaps 180 would be better?

 

[TLS Guy]

Okay, well, I experimented last night by putting my PSW350 katty-cornered so the ports fire directly into the actual corner (to the left of my left front channel, a Polk RTi12 tower) and ran the War of the Worlds DVD with the DTS track engaged -- I couldn't believe it, but there was a ridiculous drop in bass output from this position. I was expecting a massive increase in at least "boominess" without the benefit of control and tightness with the sub being directly in the corner, but I couldn't believe what I was experiencing -- the sequence in which the tripods explode out of the ground toward the beginning, and the mechanical arms and legs crash down on the cars and people, which is normally a scene that exhibits bone-crushing wallops of LFE, didn't have much impact AT ALL. I simply couldn't believe this.

So, a little while longer into the DVD, I stopped the disc and put the sub back to around where it was originally -- that is, out of the actual corner and closer to the left RTi12 main but flush with the wall my system and wall unit are on. I pushed the enclosure back a bit so the rear ports were a little closer to the wall, then I continued War of the Worlds. Suddenly, the impact and slam were much more defined now, with the room-shaking (well, the best this piece of crap sub can shake a room) effect that began rattling my wall decoration once again.

What's interesting about this also was the fact that as soon as I played the first action sequence with the sub in its moved position back along the front wall, my wife yelled down to me from the second floor loft (where our 2-channel system is; she was actually listening to the tuner and working on her laptop up there) and I paused the disc to ask her what she said -- she asked me if I had played with the sub's calibration levels or volume because the vibrations upstairs were ridiculous. I mentioned that I had only moved the sub back to around where it originally was -- she was actually concerned that something in the wall unit of hers might break from the vibrations (like the collector's plates she has in there, etc.).

The only thing I could get from all of this is the following...for some reason, with the sub pointing into the actual corner, this didn't develop enough bass energy for my room, perhaps because there was a good deal of space between the ports in the back and the actual corner, based on how I katty-cornered it. Further, when I moved it back to being along the front wall, closer to the left main speaker, I did close the gap between the ports and the wall, so I am thinking the wall is creating the barrier in which the bass waves are hitting and then transferring to the rest of the room. I don't really have another explanation for any of this, especially given the fact that direct corner-loading is supposed to dramatically make bass louder and boomier -- the opposite happened in my room. There was like a "hole" during some of those heavy LFE scenes, and it was just bewildering to me...

Anyone care to take a crack at why placing the sub directly in the corner, FIRING INTO the actual corner, yielded less tactile slam in my room as compared to moving it out of the actual corner and along the front wall shared with my left front main?

This one's really a head-scratcher...

Most likely the loading of port by the corner changed the phase angle of the wave from the port.

Try changing the sub phase.

You likely will get better reinforcement if you face the cone into the corner, as then both sides of the cone will be loaded, the back by the enclosure and the front by the corner.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Not a dumb question at all, band -- my RTi12 towers are crossed over at 60Hz, based on what I was suggested because of these speakers' capabilities and size.

I'm thinking it could be an issue of the phase -- I have it at 0 degrees, but perhaps 180 would be better?

I am pretty certain it means your sub sucks...

I have no idea, My subs don't seem to care which way they face but then again, I have been known to EQ the heck out of a sub.

Just for the record, my sub that is corner loaded is less bommy than the one that is on the front soundstage.

 

[Alex2507]

Okay, well, I experimented last night by putting my PSW350 katty-cornered so the ports fire directly into the actual corner (to the left of my left front channel, a Polk RTi12 tower) and ran the War of the Worlds DVD with the DTS track engaged -- I couldn't believe it, but there was a ridiculous drop in bass output from this position. I was expecting a massive increase in at least "boominess" without the benefit of control and tightness with the sub being directly in the corner, but I couldn't believe what I was experiencing -- the sequence in which the tripods explode out of the ground toward the beginning, and the mechanical arms and legs crash down on the cars and people, which is normally a scene that exhibits bone-crushing wallops of LFE, didn't have much impact AT ALL. I simply couldn't believe this.

So, a little while longer into the DVD, I stopped the disc and put the sub back to around where it was originally -- that is, out of the actual corner and closer to the left RTi12 main but flush with the wall my system and wall unit are on. I pushed the enclosure back a bit so the rear ports were a little closer to the wall, then I continued War of the Worlds. Suddenly, the impact and slam were much more defined now, with the room-shaking (well, the best this piece of crap sub can shake a room) effect that began rattling my wall decoration once again.

What's interesting about this also was the fact that as soon as I played the first action sequence with the sub in its moved position back along the front wall, my wife yelled down to me from the second floor loft (where our 2-channel system is; she was actually listening to the tuner and working on her laptop up there) and I paused the disc to ask her what she said -- she asked me if I had played with the sub's calibration levels or volume because the vibrations upstairs were ridiculous. I mentioned that I had only moved the sub back to around where it originally was -- she was actually concerned that something in the wall unit of hers might break from the vibrations (like the collector's plates she has in there, etc.).

The only thing I could get from all of this is the following...for some reason, with the sub pointing into the actual corner, this didn't develop enough bass energy for my room, perhaps because there was a good deal of space between the ports in the back and the actual corner, based on how I katty-cornered it. Further, when I moved it back to being along the front wall, closer to the left main speaker, I did close the gap between the ports and the wall, so I am thinking the wall is creating the barrier in which the bass waves are hitting and then transferring to the rest of the room. I don't really have another explanation for any of this, especially given the fact that direct corner-loading is supposed to dramatically make bass louder and boomier -- the opposite happened in my room. There was like a "hole" during some of those heavy LFE scenes, and it was just bewildering to me...

Anyone care to take a crack at why placing the sub directly in the corner, FIRING INTO the actual corner, yielded less tactile slam in my room as compared to moving it out of the actual corner and along the front wall shared with my left front main?

This one's really a head-scratcher...

might be sitting in a null. move the sub 2 inches to the left.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I am pretty certain it means your sub sucks...

Well, this has already been established... I'm trying to build up enough funds to get an SVS or HSU...

Just for the record, my sub that is corner loaded is less bommy than the one that is on the front soundstage.

Now that is weird -- although I am experiencing less boom in the corner, too, as I said...

You have two subs, one in the corner and one along the front wall where the front soundstage is?

 

[PearlcorderS701]

might be sitting in a null. move the sub 2 inches to the left.

That could be -- I just thought that automatically placing it in the corner would increase the slam; I didn't consider the null possibility. I have since moved it anyway, back along the front soundstage wall, an inch or two to the left of the main left speaker...should I still move it to the left two inches as you suggest?