Apartment setup help!

[Hostility]

well finally got my own place with my gf, unfortunately it has to be into an apartment, but oh well. So now i need some help on where the best place to put everything, i dont have many options but i took some pictures for you guys to look at. ill post them, then tell you what i think.

walking into living room

facing 1 end, bathroom to the right

standing in bathroom doorway

standing in bedroom doorway

now here is my set up at home...

rack

rears

The pictures you see of the apartment, shows the living room standing at different sides, the side that has the window up top i think should have the couch along it, and along the left hand side before you go into the other room is where my computer will be, then on the wall between the 2 door ways is where i think my tv and fronts and sub should go. just dont know where im going to stick my rack (cant put in closets) and i need to know where to put my acoustic panels also.

I do not want to get rid of anything ie: rack, so i have to figure out some kind of way to fit it all in. the baseboard heat along that wall will not be used.

 

[jostenmeat]

well finally got my own place with my gf, unfortunately it has to be into an apartment, but oh well. So now i need some help on where the best place to put everything, i dont have many options but i took some pictures for you guys to look at. ill post them, then tell you what i think.

The pictures you see of the apartment, shows the living room standing at different sides, the side that has the window up top i think should have the couch along it, and along the left hand side before you go into the other room is where my computer will be, then on the wall between the 2 door ways is where i think my tv and fronts and sub should go. just dont know where im going to stick my rack (cant put in closets) and i need to know where to put my acoustic panels also.

I do not want to get rid of anything ie: rack, so i have to figure out some kind of way to fit it all in. the baseboard heat along that wall will not be used.

You've hardly listed any limitations or requirements, outside of the inability to use the closet space. Since we are in an acoustics forum, and not an interior design forum, it's pretty much the same old advice that I and others often give here. You can read my past posts in this subforum, and you'll see I'm retyping the same thing on a near weekly basis for the last couple of years.

If you want the best acoustics, you do not recreate your old situation. Instead, you want to:

1. orient the system lengthwise
2. start with 38% room length for your ears, doesn't matter front or back wall
3. even if you can't do #2, try your best to give yourself space from the back wall
4. you have space to work with, so please experiment with significant space between speakers and boundaries (both front and sidewalls). I'd say the GREAT proportion of systems out there don't have enough space.
5. If #4 is impossible, I'd put your panels on either the front or sidewalls. If front, directly behind speakers, if sidewalls, at first reflection points.
6. Give yourself full freedom in placing the rack. Mine is directly behind viewers, which generally helps with immersion as well. URC RF200 pack is $75, then you can put them anywhere, out of sight even. A 25 ft Mono hdmi cable is prolly $20.

I'm sure I forgot to mention other things, but there's my start for now.

 

[Hostility]

well what im really looking for, is advice on where stuff should be in relation to, sound going through the walls, i know its going to happen no matter what, but i wasent sure if they should be facing the outside wall, or towards a wall that is shared, if you know what im getting at. Also i just really have no clue where the panels should be placed, i was thinking of hanging 2 directly behind the front speakers, then the other 2, some where else after i get stuff set up.

so you are saying put the t.v along the wall on the left (as you walk into the living room) (opposite end of closets?) then maybe have the couch pushed up along side of the outside wall so you can still walk past to go to the washroom?, i will have to mesaure it out with a tape and see how things would fit, that would make me push my fronts closer to the t.v, not a big problem, ill also have to try and convince the gf that way if it works out better also (she might not like that idea lol)

 

[jostenmeat]

well what im really looking for, is advice on where stuff should be in relation to, sound going through the walls, i know its going to happen no matter what, but i wasent sure if they should be facing the outside wall, or towards a wall that is shared, if you know what im getting at. Also i just really have no clue where the panels should be placed, i was thinking of hanging 2 directly behind the front speakers, then the other 2, some where else after i get stuff set up.

I thought I already gave you some tips.

I would put the issue of outside wall vs inside wall waaaaay down the list of importance. REREAD #1.

For panel placement, I already gave you two ideas, but let me add some more then. I believe, that in general, the closer that YOU or any SPEAKER is to a boundary, the better the chances are that a panel will benefit on that boundary.

What kind of panels do you have? What are they made of, and how thick are they?

Soundproofing is a totally different thing from "acoustic treatment". The first is only considering keeping sound in, while the second is focused on good response INSIDE.

In any case, having low bass escape is not a bad thing, because a concrete room for instance can make it very difficult or impossible to treat for very low bass.

so you are saying put the t.v along the wall on the left (as you walk into the living room) (opposite end of closets?) then maybe have the couch pushed up along side of the outside wall so you can still walk past to go to the washroom?, i will have to mesaure it out with a tape and see how things would fit, that would make me push my fronts closer to the t.v, not a big problem, ill also have to try and convince the gf that way if it works out better also (she might not like that idea lol)

In all honesty, I don't want to take 20 minutes to orient myself as far as which wall is which and which entrance is which, scrolling up and down and trying to remember. I mean, it's GREAT you put up photos, but now a birds eye view diagram might be nice. Blueprint/map whatever.

To reiterate:

GO LENGTHWISE

KEEP YOURSELF AWAY FROM BOUNDARIES, SUCH AS THE BACK WALL. YES THAT MEANS NO MORE COUCH BACKED UP AGAINST THE WALL. IF IT HAS TO BE BACKED UP REREAD MY THIRD PARAGRAPH OF THIS POST. YES, I AM SAYING PUT PANELS BEHIND YOUR HEAD IF YOU MUST BE BACKED UP AGAINST THE WALL.

EXPERIMENT WITH SPACING (AND TAKE GREAT LIBERTIES) WITH THE SPEAKERS FROM THE WALLS (BOTH FRONT AND SIDES).

GENERALLY SPEAKING, DO THE TREATMENTS LAST (THOUGH SOMETIMES FIRST GIVES YOU MORE FLEXIBILITY). EXPERIMENT WITH THEIR PLACEMENT.

 

[Hostility]

my panels are made from owens 703, 2" thick with a 1" air gap behind. i would make a birds eye view if i could, i could do one up in paint, but it would just look horrible. I did explain to my gf over the phone about the lengthwise option and she said yes, so i will have to measure it to see if its even do able. if not i have no choise but to do it with the couch along the back wall, also i do know you are supose to leave a gap behind youself from the back wall, but sometimes you just dont have a choise, right now at my house its got a 3" gap from the back wall, and i think my set up right now is pretty good for what it is, yes it could be way better, but i think it does ok. I know i dont have many choises here, so it seems its just either those 2 choises. lengthwise if it fits and i can find a spot for everything without it looking akward, or everything along a wall. also, when you say boundarys what do you mean? im not to familair with that and im not familiar with "first reflections" i know what they are, but how do you know where they are? sorry if i sound like a dumbass, but im only 23, and still have a lot to learn.

also, how far away should my seating be from the t.v?

 

[jostenmeat]

Boundaries are your walls, floor, and ceiling.

You find your first reflections by using a flashlight (laser even easier) at the seated position, and have a second person hold a mirror on the wall. You keep the light targeted on the mirror, while moving the mirror along the wall until it hits the speaker. You can do it the reverse of course, from the speaker to the LP. It's like a bank shot in a game of pool for instance.

OC 703 at 2" is going to do little to nothing for bass. Most rooms have their primary issues with bass. Dealing with bass and midbass can be beneficial for your HF too, because over bloated bass modes can actually cover up or "mask" your HF stuff. This is very related to trying to stay away from the back wall.

Therefore, since your panels will have a rather negligible effect on your bass, I would set everything up as well as I possibly could without even thinking about the treatments at all. If afterward you find that you still have a bit too much HF issues, or some slap echo or anything, then you can find spots for your panels. You could buy or make beefier panels for your room, if you feel you need it, then use your existing panels for something like the ceiling. Use the mirror method, but get a step stool/ladder. I used pieces of tape to mark my spots.

For your TV viewing distance, personally (as this has very subjective elements involved), I think one should be close enough to at least enjoy the full resolution of 1080p. However, THX would recommend an even more immersive angle than that. I can't tell what size screen you have, but if it's between 42" and 50", I'm going to pretend it's 46". I would sit no farther than 6' away, and keep scooting the TV closer to me until it's perfect for me. Of course, it's hard to get everything perfect, and you don't want anything to look awkward, and that's why you are setting it up, and not me.

 

[Hostility]

ok well bad news, the wall to do it lengthwise, is a lot smaller then it looks in the pictures and smaller then i thought, it would only be able to have my tv there. so i guess im stuck with the way it was set up at home. i think i have a plan for everything to fit, just not sure on my rears as they will be either cramped up against my couch and close to your ears, or father apart, but one will be on a stand and the other ontop of my rack. so that i will have to deal with at some point. also, thanks for the help with reflections, i will have to do that once everything is set up, seems pretty easy to do! and the room is 11' wide same as my room now at home, that leaves me with a viewing distance of 8' away from screen to eyes, also my t.v is a 50". Im going to try to pull everything as far away from the wall as i can, and also may have to put my subwoofer some where different, maybe beside the couch, as i definitly dont want it near a corner, the last thing i need is to creat more boom lol, also, my hot lanlord that lives upstairs said she doesnt care about noise , and said she will let me know if she ever leaves for a few days or something so we can watch movies loud , so im very pleased about that, just hope i dont move or shake anything upstairs on her lol

 

[Hostility]

also, i have 2 shelves that i could put on the wall, that could get my rears higher up (what ever height i want) and that frees more space so i dont have my rears on my stands. question, do i fire them at each other, or at an angle? what height should they be at above my ear? and maybe how far from my ears should the be apart? seems like the wiser choice to make right now and frees up some floor space. p.s moving all HT furniture there tomorrow.

 

[bpape]

The other issue is that if you set up the short way, both you and your speakers will be very limited in terms of how far from a boundary they can be. This will require treatment behind the speakers for SBIR (Boundary interactions) and behind the listener. 2" panels behind the speakers could be somewhat effective. They're not going to be near enough to account for bass buildup from the wall directly behind the listening position.

Bryan

 

[Hostility]

ok well we brought all my stuff there, and we could only find 1 way to do it to make everything fit, i know it isnt the best way. but we only had so much to work with. i will have to take a picture tomorrow night when im there. but the speakers are pretty tight to the t.v, but the rears are spaced out nicley, and i have the couch about 4-5" away from the back wall.



P.S what should i do about cables that are to long? ive heard not to wind them up and zip tie them. so what should i do, IE: speaker wire, hdmi cables, rca cable, and Power cables?

 

[Hostility]

ok, here are some more crappy cell pictures, of how its all set up. all thats left is to run addyssey and put up acustic panels.

my head when sitting is 8 ft from t.v and roughly same from front speakers, and the rears are 5 ft from my head when sitting dead center.

subwoofer is sitting beside the couch. not hooked up as i wont be able to use it all the time, so i will only plug it in when it can be used. dvds on the floor untill i get the shelf on the wall

 

[Patrick_Wolf]

Is there a GRAMMA under your sub? Can't tell from the photo. It reduces vibrations that travel into the walls/floors; great for apts. Course poor placement and/or sheer volume will still rattle the walls.

 

[Hostility]

no, but i have these rubber pieces, that are about 1" thick and really hard rubber, i was thinking of putting under it, would that do the same thing?

 

[Chitown2477]

You've hardly listed any limitations or requirements, outside of the inability to use the closet space. Since we are in an acoustics forum, and not an interior design forum, it's pretty much the same old advice that I and others often give here. You can read my past posts in this subforum, and you'll see I'm retyping the same thing on a near weekly basis for the last couple of years.

If you want the best acoustics, you do not recreate your old situation. Instead, you want to:

1. orient the system lengthwise
2. start with 38% room length for your ears, doesn't matter front or back wall
3. even if you can't do #2, try your best to give yourself space from the back wall
4. you have space to work with, so please experiment with significant space between speakers and boundaries (both front and sidewalls). I'd say the GREAT proportion of systems out there don't have enough space.
5. If #4 is impossible, I'd put your panels on either the front or sidewalls. If front, directly behind speakers, if sidewalls, at first reflection points.
6. Give yourself full freedom in placing the rack. Mine is directly behind viewers, which generally helps with immersion as well. URC RF200 pack is $75, then you can put them anywhere, out of sight even. A 25 ft Mono hdmi cable is prolly $20.

I'm sure I forgot to mention other things, but there's my start for now.

What does 38% room length for your ears mean?

 

[bpape]

If you could move the rack away from the speakers that would help.

38% means if you measured the room front to back and say it was 10 feet. The distance from the wall behind your head to your seated ear positoin would be 38% of that length, or 3.8 feet.

This is just a general rule of thumb starting point but normally, the best position ends up being somewhere between 33 and 38%

Bryan