I Know Sub Placement is a Controversial Subject, But...

[PearlcorderS701]

We've all heard the suggestion of dropping a sub into a corner-loaded placement in order to yield loud (but perhaps not particularly accurate), exaggerated bass, and I realize this subject has been debated from all sides ad nauseum, but I have a question regarding this theory that perhaps one of you 'holics can assist with...

When it's said "drop a sub into a corner," is it meant that the actual enclosure should fire at the corner, and the enclosure itself should be kind of katty-cornered against the wall, facing the actual corner? Or does this just mean place it straight against the wall of the main front speakers, just near the corner...?

I want to fiddle around with my PSW350 in order to squeeze some more LFE out of this thing before I can afford a new sub, but I'm wondering if the concept of "corner loading" actually means the port(s) should fire into the actual corner -- that is, the sub is positioned on a katty-cornered angle so that the wave actually fires into the corner...

Can someone shed some light on this? Could this potentially yield more slam from my PSW350?

 

[TLS Guy]

We've all heard the suggestion of dropping a sub into a corner-loaded placement in order to yield loud (but perhaps not particularly accurate), exaggerated bass, and I realize this subject has been debated from all sides ad nauseum, but I have a question regarding this theory that perhaps one of you 'holics can assist with...

When it's said "drop a sub into a corner," is it meant that the actual enclosure should fire at the corner, and the enclosure itself should be kind of katty-cornered against the wall, facing the actual corner? Or does this just mean place it straight against the wall of the main front speakers, just near the corner...?

I want to fiddle around with my PSW350 in order to squeeze some more LFE out of this thing before I can afford a new sub, but I'm wondering if the concept of "corner loading" actually means the port(s) should fire into the actual corner -- that is, the sub is positioned on a katty-cornered angle so that the wave actually fires into the corner...

Can someone shed some light on this? Could this potentially yield more slam from my PSW350?

The corner effect is a poor man's horn loading. A horn in essence is a chamber which opens by a throat, (a restriction) to an expanding line.

So if you put your sub across the corner, preferably with the speaker firing into the corner, the port would work also, and create a gap of about 2" between the rear edges of the enclosure and the wall, that will create the throat. The space behind the sub will be the chamber, not perfect because it is open top and bottom.

The two walls then provide a form of horn loading. Again this is not perfect as the expansion is linear. Optimally it is better with an exponential or tractrix flare.

That is how corner loading increases a speaker's output and sensitivity.

Now for Heaven's sake don't beat this thread to death.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

The corner effect is a poor man's horn loading. .

So if you are rich, this won't work??????????

 

[TLS Guy]

So if you are rich, this won't work??????????

Good one. But it works for poor and rich alike. However it increases output for the same drive, but no guarantee about the smoothness of the response. Results may vary!

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm about to board a plane for the UK, so I will be off line until sometime tomorrow if have questions.

We are celebrating my mother's 90th birthday on Saturday.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Anyway...

Does anyone have anything further regarding this topic...something that's in a bit more "layman's" in terms of approach and answer with regard to facing a sub directly into a corner?

And I am NOT　ｔｒｙｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　＂ｂｅａｔ　ｔｈｉｓ　ｔｏｐｉｃ　ｔｏ　ｄｅａｔｈ＂．．．　Ｉ＇ｍ　ｇｅｎｕｉｎｅｌｙ　ｊｕｓｔ　ａｓｋｉｎｇ．．．

 

[Matt34]

I always refer back to these articles when recommending subwoofer calibration and placement.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/an-easy-solution-to-subwoofer-calibration

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I always refer back to these articles when recommending subwoofer calibration and placement.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/an-easy-solution-to-subwoofer-calibration

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1

Thanks a lot, Matt -- I appreciate the links, and for keeping the topic civil -- I apologize for the "status" of my last response; I was answering from an outside computer that was mixing up some Chinese language icons and such.

Can you give me some more insight, though, as far as if "corner loading" means precisely that -- that is, pointing the sub directly into the corner so the ports fire into the actual triangular area created by "katty-cornering" the enclosure? Should this, in theory, yield ridiculously elevated volumes of bass?

 

[Matt34]

I haven't seen anything that shows there is a substantial difference in what way the ports/drivers face in a corner (with the exception of a folded horn sub), it has more to do with the proximity of the subwoofer unit to the walls. The reason we load a sub in the corner is to excite as many nodes as possible (+3dB per boundary is the commonly quoted figure).

That is why if you want to increase output while not losing SQ(especially across multiple seating positions), using multiple subs is the best way to accomplish this.

Using broad or low band absorption with EQ(DPS) is also recommended regardless of your application.


Here's a quote taken from the second article I linked:

At the frequencies we're dealing with when speaking about subwoofers, we can consider them to be omnidirectional radiators quite capable of exciting every room resonance whose eigenfrequency lies within the system's pass band.....Once again, experimentation, in this case, with subwoofer placement will quickly tell you what works and what doesn't.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I haven't seen anything that shows there is a substantial difference in what way the ports/drivers face in a corner (with the exception of a folded horn sub), it has more to do with the proximity of the subwoofer unit to the walls. The reason we load a sub in the corner is to excite as many nodes as possible (+3dB per boundary is the commonly quoted figure).

That is why if you want to increase output while not losing SQ(especially across multiple seating positions), using multiple subs is the best way to accomplish this.

Using broad or low band absorption with EQ(DPS) is also recommended regardless of your application.


Here's a quote taken from the second article I linked:

Interesting; thank you...

I just wondered if "corner loading" as it's regularly called is literally that -- that the enclosure should fire into an actual corner, and this would produce greatly enhanced sub frequency volume waves...you see, I know everyone always declares "throw the sub in a corner!" but I wondered if that meant near the corner, along the wall closing in on the corner or actually FIRING AGAINST and INTO the corner. Right now, my sub sits to the left of the left main speaker, a few inches off the wall, but not really IN the corner of the room...do you think I should experiment with placing it katty-cornered so the ports fire directly into the triangular corner?

 

[bandphan]

What if the sub is sealed, what if the sub is down firing, ect ect ect. Its the walls that ptoduce the added effect as Matt and Dr. Mark said.

 

[GO-NAD!]

...do you think I should experiment with placing it katty-cornered so the ports fire directly into the triangular corner?

Yes! You won't break it, so go ahead. As already mentioned though, it'll probably amplify certain frequencies more than others. In fact you may experience nulls, which will actually decrease the volume of some frequencies, while it increases the volume of others.

To know precisely what happens, you really need some test tones and an SPL meter.

 

[lietuvis91]

I've been moving my sub all over the room, left corner, right corner, close to the wall, further from the wall and it all seems to sound different.

So I guess, the reason you are not getting a "clear cut answer" is because it just all depends on the room: size, shape, floors and as I realized furniture too. If you have a room cluttered with furniture, that sub will sound different in each spot (like mine)

anyway, get off your arse, try a few things and figure out what works for YOUR room with all of YOUR junk in it.

cheers...

 

[PearlcorderS701]

As always, thanks for all the genuine replies, fellas; I appreciate the input...

I understand the nulls and peaks theory whereby these elements may be increased or decreased based on how the sub is firing and such -- still, is there any way to know if what is meant when it's suggested to "load your sub in the corner" is actually to place the enclosure towards the corner, or does that mean just get it near it? That's all I am trying to ascertain -- is that what's meant when you hear "drop that sub in the corner!" or is that more of a generalized statement to get the sub near the corner...?

I understand what the last poster means about moving the sub around to create slight changes with each movement -- I experienced that just moving my PSW350 a couple of inches to the left of where it was...suddenly, the bass was DRAMATICALLY reduced...

 

[gmichael]

Try this:
Put the sub where you normally sit.
Play something.
Crawl around on the floor until you find where it sounds best to you.
Put sub there.
Play something.
Sit down and listen.
Move sub a few inches.
Sit down and listen.
Move sub a few inches in a different direction.
Sit down and listen.
Move sub a few inches in a different direction.
Sit down and listen.
Maybe take a few measurments.
Rinse and repeat.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

G,

I've heard about the "put the sub in your listening space then crawl around on the floor" theory/approach to find the best place for it -- I am not certain I am comfortable doing that. Also, I do want to keep the sub on the main wall, to the left of the left main channel somewhere/somehow, it's just I don't know if firing it directly into the corner is a way to exponentially increase the SPL output...

 

[gmichael]

G,

I've heard about the "put the sub in your listening space then crawl around on the floor" theory/approach to find the best place for it -- I am not certain I am comfortable doing that. Also, I do want to keep the sub on the main wall, to the left of the left main channel somewhere/somehow, it's just I don't know if firing it directly into the corner is a way to exponentially increase the SPL output...

One person said yes to that. Another said maybe. I'd give it a try to see what you get. Moving it a few inches either way may make a huge difference too. Why not try it both ways to see what you like best?

 

[PearlcorderS701]

One person said yes to that. Another said maybe.

That's precisely why I'm torn and confused.

I'd give it a try to see what you get. Moving it a few inches either way may make a huge difference too. Why not try it both ways to see what you like best?

Understood.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Dude, does this look familiar?

Now for Heaven's sake don't beat this thread to death.

 

[gmichael]

Dude, does this look familiar?
Now for Heaven's sake don't beat this thread to death.

But Willlllllbur.... I wanted an Aaaaadison apple..