Importance of CD player in system

[AJinFLA]

...it is conceivable that such a low cost analog section could indeed impose an audible transfer function on the signal. Could.
So use the digital out, the shortest cable required to connect, save your $$....relax and enjoy.

Nope, when I used my Blu-Ray plaey for CD playback, I use the analog outputs connected to my Yammaha receiver in pure direct mode to keep it as anolg as I can and to by pass the signal processing of the receiver. The sound from this setup is fantastic.

I have one DVD player like that, but just one that I know of so far.

Unfortunately you are mistaken Peng. As you can see our resident EE 3db has negated that possibility, so I'm afraid that it's neither conceivable nor could it be, that the low cost analog section of your DVD player imposed a (detrimental) audible transfer function onto the output. Sorry.
Why? Because 3db used his "Blu-Ray plaey" connected to his "Yammaha" using the "anolg" output....and it sounded fantastic, subjectively, to him, thereby negating any such physical possibility about your DVD player.
Got it?

cheers,

AJ

 

[TLS Guy]

He's stating SNR specs, not dynamic range.

For CD it amounts to the same thing, as the noise floor is determined by the dither signal, which also determines the dynamic range. In fact 90 db is only achieved with very careful dithering.

 

[TLS Guy]

Very interesting thread I stumbled upon here.

This is a topic I've always had a passionate opinion about; I have always kept a separate CD changer in my systems throughout the years, even when I turned to full-blown surround. To me, there is something that's "just right" about connecting a dedicated CD player/changer to a receiver or preamp for listening to music as opposed to playing a disc back in a primary video device (DVD/BD). That said, I agree with some of the sentiments here that suggest a dedicated player of this sort is not really needed in a home theater-only type environment, as the DVD or BD player can spin the occasional CD if need be -- but this is IF the end user does not have a dedicated CD player already.

In my case, I owned Kenwood and then Marantz CD changers, and moved from an audio-only 2-channel system to an apartment (studio sized) surround system, still keeping the Marantz CC67 changer at the time plugged into the Onkyo surround AVR, and then to yet another apartment-sized surround system with the new Onkyo 605 when I moved across country, still keeping the CC67, and then replaced the CC67 with a new CC4001 when the 67 crapped out finally. Now, in my new house, we have a separate 2-channel listening room where I moved the CC4001 and it serves as dedicated source component in that system. If I ever play a CD in my home theater room, I use my OPPO BDP-83 BD player; it does fine for the casual background music when guests are over, etc.

But my whole point here is that I feel if you're doing a two-channel dedicated audio system, a standalone CD player or changer is crucial -- if you are listening casually, and will only be spinning CDs every now and then via your HT system, the optical player for that system (DVD/BD) is fine. I always went with changers, FWIW, because I do a good deal of mixed compilation CD-R recording from different discs, and I can load five up in a changer and program the order I want them to play and then record into my TASCAM recorder; a single-disc unit never satisfied my needs, personally, even though they're normally regarded as much better built and audiophile-grade.

Was this a bit off tangent with regard to what the OP was asking? Hope not...

Balls!

Bits are bits. In general the DACs in receivers and pre pros are superior. The DAC with a digital connection will be totally impartial to the source of the stream.

Basically it leaves the quality of the analog section of a player, if you choose to use it, as the only conceivable variable in most cases.

I have four devices I can play CDs on in this system.

My Marantz DV 9600 sounds identical whether I use its DACs or the those of my Marantz AV8003 via HDMI.

The Oppo BD 83 only has an HDMI connection to the AV 8003, but it sounds identical to the Marantz.

My audio workstation has external DACs in a German professional RME Fireface 2000 units, which is thought to have some of the best DACs and audio circuitry around. It has two CD drives available to it. The professional Plextor CD drive/burner in the workstation and a professional Marantz CDR 631. The RME Fireface 800 has both analog and digital connection to the Marantz AV 8003. I hear no difference with either connection.

In other words a CD sounds the same which ever way I play it.

I should mention however that with my former Rotel pre/pro, I did have a slight preference for the CDs played via the RME with analog connection, but with the Marantz AV 8003 I don't.

 

[3db]

Unfortunately you are mistaken Peng. As you can see our resident EE 3db has negated that possibility, so I'm afraid that it's neither conceivable nor could it be, that the low cost analog section of your DVD player imposed a (detrimental) audible transfer function onto the output. Sorry.
Why? Because 3db used his "Blu-Ray plaey" connected to his "Yammaha" using the "anolg" output....and it sounded fantastic, subjectively, to him, thereby negating any such physical possibility about your DVD player.
Got it?

cheers,

AJ

Geeze AJ.. I did not know that my setup was basis for negating the possibility of finding a DVD player with a poorly designed analog stage....but only you can reach such an outrageous conclusion. More power to you my gator wrestling friend

 

[Seth=L]

I have one DVD player like that, but just one that I know of so far.

My Toshiba SD-9000 has an analog output clipping problem over the mixed output as well as the headphone output. However, the multichannel outputs seem to be unaffected.

 

[AJinFLA]

No so much simplicity as it is mature technology. Essentially, if you use the digital output to a recent/modern receiver, it basically becomes a data transfer device (despite unsubstantiated rumors of audible jitter bogeymen lurking at every corner). However if you use the analog output of a very low cost player....

...it is conceivable that such a low cost analog section could indeed impose an audible transfer function on the signal. Could.
So use the digital out, the shortest cable required to connect, save your $$....relax and enjoy.

cheers,

AJ

Nope, when I used my Blu-Ray plaey for CD playback, I use the analog outputs connected to my Yammaha receiver in pure direct mode to keep it as anolg as I can and to by pass the signal processing of the receiver. The sound from this setup is fantastic.

Geeze AJ.. I did not know that my setup was basis for negating the possibility of finding a DVD player with a poorly designed analog stage....but only you can reach such an outrageous conclusion.

Then you really ought to ease off the bottle or meds, so you remember posting this stuff, eh?
Hoser.

 

[TLS Guy]

My Toshiba SD-9000 has an analog output clipping problem over the mixed output as well as the headphone output. However, the multichannel outputs seem to be unaffected.

I was pretty certain, they would be out there somewhere!

 

[Seth=L]

I sincerely hope you aren't being serious.

 

[Seth=L]

I was pretty certain, they would be out there somewhere!

It's funny too, because the SD-9000 was a TOTL DVD player.

 

[PENG]

I can't help but wonder why/how people could hear the better SQ from the 83SE vs the 83 in using the analog? Could it be that the 83 has not so good analog, sighted bias or whatever?? I can't even hear the expected better quality from some of my SACDs half the time, yet I can easily hear the difference between the P362 and my other speakers, sighted or blind with them side by side level matched or not.

 

[PENG]

My Toshiba SD-9000 has an analog output clipping problem over the mixed output as well as the headphone output. However, the multichannel outputs seem to be unaffected.

Mine is a SOKE multi region DVD player, ever heard of it? I paid $120 for it but it sounds much worse than my other $29.99 DVD player. I still have a total of 13 (not bragging, in fact embarrassing to admit being so crazy....) players that can play CD but the SOKE is the only one that has analog outs that sound no better than a boom box. Digital out sounds fine, fortunately and expectedly.....

 

[3db]

Then you really ought to ease off the bottle or meds, so you remember posting this stuff, eh?
Hoser.

How can I forget when I have your endless drone "im always right" ringing in my ear

 

[3db]

Mine is a SOKE multi region DVD player, ever heard of it? I paid $120 for it but it sounds much worse than my other $29.99 DVD player. I still have a total of 13 (not bragging, in fact embarrassing to admit being so crazy....) players that can play CD but the SOKE is the only one that has analog outs that sound no better than a boom box. Digital out sounds fine, fortunately and expectedly.....

Never heard of that brand. Where did you pick that up?

 

[3db]

Mine is a SOKE multi region DVD player, ever heard of it? I paid $120 for it but it sounds much worse than my other $29.99 DVD player. I still have a total of 13 (not bragging, in fact embarrassing to admit being so crazy....) players that can play CD but the SOKE is the only one that has analog outs that sound no better than a boom box. Digital out sounds fine, fortunately and expectedly.....

I've have two players now, a Samsung D8 (not sure of the model) which I purchased after my Electrohome 8192 DVD player died. I used the analog outputs for those while playing CD switching back and forth between the digital and analog outs and I've heard no difference. The other player now is my Sony BluRay, BDP-S360 and again, I've heard no difference between the digital and the analog outs. I'm saying I'm fortunate not to have encountered what you eperienced with your SOKE.

 

[PENG]

Never heard of that brand. Where did you pick that up?

Pacific Mall in Toronto, probably 5 years ago. It is one of those that has Karaoke built-in.

 

[PENG]

I'm saying I'm fortunate not to have encountered what you eperienced with your SOKE.

I considered myself fortunate too. I have had 14 players, 13 now because one died a couple of years ago, and only the SOKE has poor sounding analog outputs.

 

[AJinFLA]

I considered myself fortunate too. I have had 14 players, 13 now because one died a couple of years ago, and only the SOKE has poor sounding analog outputs.

It has nothing to do with fortune...and everything to do with engineering. In the low cost player(s) I referred to (and even some non-low cost ones), costs/corners have to be cut somewhere, so anyone who is technically literate...or an EE....would instantly realize the possibility of the analog output section having the potential to degrade the signal.
Hence 3db's "Nope" response.

cheers,

AJ

(Can't wait to see the effect on the "Midol Meter" )

 

[PENG]

It has nothing to do with fortune...and everything to do with engineering. In the low cost player(s) I referred to (and even some non-low cost ones), costs/corners have to be cut somewhere, so anyone who is technically literate...or an EE....would instantly realize the possibility of the analog output section having the potential to degrade the signal.
Hence 3db's "Nope" response.

cheers,

AJ

(Can't wait to see the effect on the "Midol Meter" )

I am not sure if you knew we were kidding regarding our "fortune", put it that way, at least I was. FYI, I do have cheap players (cost cutting expected) that sound great with their analog outs.

 

[AJinFLA]

FYI, I do have cheap players (cost cutting expected) that sound great with their analog outs.

...hence my caveats, "Could", "Conceivable", etc., where I concede the possibility of the analog out degradation....or not.