Upgraditis Fever

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can vouch for that as I have the RX-V1800 which is identical from an amp/powersupply set-up

or if he really feels his Denon is inadequate he should look into that Yamaha rxv1900 on sale at newegg for $599.00. It would easily drive those speakers and later if still not happy use it in a pre/pro set up.

You guys are being too practical.

Yamaha is great. So are other $1,300 (retail) receivers.

But I believe Ares is looking for excuses to spend some $$$ on "high-end" gears.

And unless that $1,400 is a mistake/typo for the NAD T775HD (retails $3,000), it would be hard to pass up. We're talking about 53.3% off retail.

 

[moves]

So now we are getting to the root cause of your problem. Up straight it inappropriate use and abuse of equipment.

Using a system turned up loud to provide whole house audio is not a viable solution.

You need speakers in those spaces or separate audio systems if you want sound in more than one room. Here is why.

At zero db any input at the specified input voltage will produce the maximum power available from that amp into the load. There will be no headroom. Moves - I don't get this?

Digital inputs are all pretty standard. So playing a CD at zero db will clip any device.

You need a minimum of 10 db headroom and really more for classical music.

To do what you are trying to do would require amps 10 times more powerful than what you have now, and expensive high powered speakers to match.

Putting that much power into speakers designed for domestic use will destroy them. The voice coils will frequently exceed their thermal limits as well as suffer severe thermal compression. The mechanical limits of the drivers will also be exceeded.

My rig is loud at -18 db. Occasionally I may push it to -12 db but not for long.

Given the dynamic range of the music I listen to, even at those settings requires 2 kW of audio power and half of the 14 amps are directly connected to the drivers so I'm not wasting half the power of those amps in a passive crossover.

Bottom line: - if you want to listen in other rooms of your house, then your upgrade is audio engineering specifically for those rooms, not more power in your existing room.

If you don't heed my advice you will destroy a lot of good equipment.

This post really caught my attention sir. I can see that you know a lot about this subject and I would like to ask some clarification:

I am running Totem Forest with an 8 ohm impedance (dips down to 6.4) with a recommended wattage of 50 - 200. The receiver is a Pioneer Elite SC 27 at 140 watts/channel. I am using channel 6 and 7 to bi-wire the totems. The SPL is listed at 110 db.

NOW.... my question is what is the maximum I should be playing these speakers at for music? and is it the same for movies?

I like to stay around -17 range for movies and for music I can enjoy down to - 12 db. (this is not standard volume... mean volume would be around -17 to - 15 db)

What is your insight on how safely I can run my system at loud levels without damaging the goods?

 

[Ares]

Now mistake it's $1399 but it's a Demo AVR no biggie to me anyway it will still have it's full manufacturers warranty which is cool, with Tax it will come to $1542.40.

You guys are being too practical.

Yamaha is great. So are other $1,300 (retail) receivers.

But I believe Ares is looking for excuses to spend some $$$ on "high-end" gears.

And unless that $1,400 is a mistake/typo for the NAD T775HD (retails $3,000), it would be hard to pass up. We're talking about 53.3% off retail.

The wife knows this hobby can $$$, but as long as my hobby is not other women she's cool with it, I'm not all set on the NAD if you guys have other recommendations that will offer more bang for the buck I'm willing to here them. What I don't spend on the receiver will then be redirected to a 2nd Sub.

 

[Boerd]

As the title states I have the fever and have been looking around a bit for a new receiver to pair up with my PSB's. I like the Denon but I'm looking for something with more "Clean Power" I have been looking at one receiver in particular the NAD T775 I have been looking for an in-depth review but couldn't find any I was wondering if any of my fellow AHers have knowledge on this model. Also if you have other recommendations please feel free to let know, Thank You.

OK - maybe off topic but hear me out.
IF you got this condition (Upgradatis) and have to burn 2k why don't you upgrade your front speakers?? Sell your front (main speakers) put 2 more k$ and get some VERY nice speakers in this range.
The best money spent is in your speakers not your electronics.
A mediocre speaker can easily have 10% THD at 90 db SPL - replacing that with something that gives you 1-3% THD at 90 db SPL is something you CAN hear.
Replacing an amp/preamp/processor from .05% THD to .0000005% THD is useless.
In a system the speakers should be by far the most expensive item(s).
Just my 2c.
BTW - I suffer from the same condition so please look at what I say NOT at what I do

 

[3db]

Now mistake it's $1399 but it's a Demo AVR no biggie to me anyway it will still have it's full manufacturers warranty which is cool, with Tax it will come to $1542.40.



The wife knows this hobby can $$$, but as long as my hobby is not other women she's cool with it, I'm not all set on the NAD if you guys have other recommendations that will offer more bang for the buck I'm willing to here them. What I don't spend on the receiver will then be redirected to a 2nd Sub.

Get the 1900 and your sub. To me its a no brainer and practical too.

 

[billy p]

Get the 1900 and your sub. To me its a no brainer and practical too.

What I would like to know is how he'll sneak that second sub into the house....

 

[3db]

What I would like to know is how he'll sneak that second sub into the house....

Thats been done before. I can't remember who it was but he bought a beast of an SVS sub without telling his SO and brought it into the house. Strange..we don't see him in these parts no more.

 

[Ares]

What I would like to know is how he'll sneak that second sub into the house....

That's easy Bill, I call this plan "I'll do it when she's out of the house" now I know what your thinking she's going to notice when she get's back right.....that is where camouflage comes into play I'll cover it with a table cloth put some magazines on it and call it an end table.

 

[Ares]

OK - maybe off topic but hear me out.
IF you got this condition (Upgradatis) and have to burn 2k why don't you upgrade your front speakers?? Sell your front (main speakers) put 2 more k$ and get some VERY nice speakers in this range.
The best money spent is in your speakers not your electronics.
A mediocre speaker can easily have 10% THD at 90 db SPL - replacing that with something that gives you 1-3% THD at 90 db SPL is something you CAN hear.
Replacing an amp/preamp/processor from .05% THD to .0000005% THD is useless.
In a system the speakers should be by far the most expensive item(s).
Just my 2c.
BTW - I suffer from the same condition so please look at what I say NOT at what I do

I have a speaker fund set aside and don't plan on upgrading my PSB's any time soon maybe in 2-3 years from now and when I do, I got my eye on a 5.1 system using the Synchrony series.

 

[moves]

I have a speaker fund set aside and don't plan on upgrading my PSB's any time soon maybe in 2-3 years from now and when I do, I got my eye on a 5.1 system using the Synchrony series.

I was set on the synchronys to until I demoed the totems. I have the Forest at 4k. The synchrony mains are 5k and won't reproduce sounds that the Totem can. Sure.... the PSBs will play louder but not as detailed. If you want loud commercial movie theater sound then the PSBs are your choice... but I think the Totems will play a cleaner more accurate sound. Try them out for yourself and see what you think. Mind you, I live in Ottawa and they are made a couple of hours from me so they might be cheaper here than in the states.

 

[Ares]

I could give them listen since the Totem Reseller isn't far away from my PSB Dealer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was set on the synchronys to until I demoed the totems. I have the Forest at 4k. The synchrony mains are 5k and won't reproduce sounds that the Totem can. Sure.... the PSBs will play louder but not as detailed. If you want loud commercial movie theater sound then the PSBs are your choice... but I think the Totems will play a cleaner more accurate sound. Try them out for yourself and see what you think. Mind you, I live in Ottawa and they are made a couple of hours from me so they might be cheaper here than in the states.

Well, isn't that just your opinion vs. Ares or 3dB?

What if they think their PSBs sound better than your Totem?

Did someone measure those Totems and find that they measure incredibly flat on and off-axis?

P.S. I think my DefTechs sound better than all of your speakers.

 

[moves]

I could give them listen since the Totem Reseller isn't far away from my PSB Dealer.

Doesn't hurt. Let me know what you think.

 

[3db]

I was set on the synchronys to until I demoed the totems. I have the Forest at 4k. The synchrony mains are 5k and won't reproduce sounds that the Totem can. Sure.... the PSBs will play louder but not as detailed. If you want loud commercial movie theater sound then the PSBs are your choice... but I think the Totems will play a cleaner more accurate sound. Try them out for yourself and see what you think. Mind you, I live in Ottawa and they are made a couple of hours from me so they might be cheaper here than in the states.

You don't get much flatter frequency response than this;

PSB Synchrony
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/psb_synchrony_one/
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/408psb/index4.html

Totem Forests
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/378/index5.html

Don't get me wrong. I love Totem and they make great speakers. But I would give the nod to the Synchronies in terms of accuracy and dynamics

 

[moves]

You don't get much flatter frequency response than this;

PSB Synchrony
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/psb_synchrony_one/
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/408psb/index4.html

Totem Forests
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/378/index5.html

Don't get me wrong. I love Totem and they make great speakers. But I would give the nod to the Synchronies in terms of accuracy and dynamics

To be honest I am not really sure how to read those graphs..... can you explain it in layman's terms please?

 

[Ares]

I read the review for the Forests then the follow-up than the follow-up to the follow-up. What caught my eye was the fact they had to add sand to it to help with cabinet resonance

I have nothing negative to say about the Forest because I have never heard them but if I'm going to drop 4K on speakers I don't want to add sand to the bottom of it to help with cabinet resonance but that just me.

 

[moves]

I read the review for the Forests then the follow-up than the follow-up to the follow-up. What caught my eye was the fact they had to add sand to it to help with cabinet resonance

I have nothing negative to say about the Forest because I have never heard them but if I'm going to drop 4K on speakers I don't want to add sand to the bottom of it to help with cabinet resonance but that just me.

I agree with you... and i own the damn things

 

[3db]

To be honest I am not really sure how to read those graphs..... can you explain it in layman's terms please?

I'll just stick to the frequency response curves for now..

First of a frequency response curve measures the speakers out (SPL) for a constant amplitude signal but whose frequency is swept across the audio bandwidth, 20 Hz to 20 KHz. The flatter the curve between 20HZ and 20 Khz, the more neutral the speaker sounds. If a speaker is reported to sound bright, then there is an emphasis in the high frequency part of the speaker. That means it plays the highs louder than the rest of the frequencies. If a speaker is reported to sound dark, then the high frequency strength is played at a lower level than say the mids or the bass. The flatter the curve, the better the speaker will sound...simplistically

An ideal speaker will produce the same level of output (spound pressure) across the entire audio spectrum for a signal of constant amplitude (strength). There is no such thing as an ideal speaker as the components making up the speakers have build tolerances that may vary, the cabinet may be structurally not rigid enough imparting its signature on the output of the speaker. There is also the cross over to consider. The cross over basically filters out the frequencies (electrically) for a given driver allowing the appropriate frequencies through to the appropriate drivers.i.e. woofers get bass, tweeters get the treble and the midrange get everything in between.
Put this all together and you have a speaker.

Now the response (sound pressure level) measured dead straight at the speaker (0 degrees) will give you the flattest frequency response. As you move off axis, ie 15 or 30 degrees off center the high frequencies usually are the ones to decrease in sound pressure. Look at chart 1 and chart 2 of the soundstage link.

Thats the real basics. I hope this helped somewhat.

 

[3db]

I read the review for the Forests then the follow-up than the follow-up to the follow-up. What caught my eye was the fact they had to add sand to it to help with cabinet resonance

I have nothing negative to say about the Forest because I have never heard them but if I'm going to drop 4K on speakers I don't want to add sand to the bottom of it to help with cabinet resonance but that just me.

Totem is a weird manufacturer. If I had not heard their products and just read their build methodoly and tweeking, I would have stayed away from them. Its almost voodoo design. But dam, they sound good. I also like the fact that they use locked mitre joints that are glued together. Whatever they are doing, it works and it works well. I would listen to them Ares too see if you like them.

 

[Ares]

Totem is a weird manufacturer. If I had not heard their products and just read their build methodoly and tweeking, I would have stayed away from them. Its almost voodoo design. But dam, they sound good. I also like the fact that they use locked mitre joints that are glued together. Whatever they are doing, it works and it works well. I would listen to them Ares too see if you like them.

See that is confusing on the one hand you have lock miter joints then on the other you need sand for cabinet resonance, I can keep an open mind I'll give them a listen before I judge them. I didn't like MA's offering til I heard the RS1s, RS6s and the RS8s.