amp advice

[Barryd]

I am looking to buy a tube amp,I have a choice between the mcintosh ma2275 integrated 75watts per channel and a line on a David Berning EA2101 100 watt per channel.Both in the end would come to about the same price.The mac is new and the other one is about 15 years old but re-tubed recently.For the david Bernings i would have to purchase a tube preamp but still coming to about the same price range.any advice would be greatly appreciated,i know its a tough question since i havn,t heard both of them either,just looking for advice.
http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/1007.asp
http://www.davidberning.com/

 

[TLS Guy]

I am looking to buy a tube amp,I have a choice between the mcintosh ma2275 integrated 75watts per channel and a line on a David Berning EA2101 100 watt per channel.Both in the end would come to about the same price.The mac is new and the other one is about 15 years old but re-tubed recently.For the david Bernings i would have to purchase a tube preamp but still coming to about the same price range.any advice would be greatly appreciated,i know its a tough question since i havn,t heard both of them either,just looking for advice.
http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/1007.asp
http://www.davidberning.com/

What ever you want to buy.

Why are you so certain you want tube amps?

It is myth and voodoo that tube amps are superior to solid state amps.

While it is true some tube amps are superior to some solid state amps, a well designed solid state amp can achieve a level of performance tube amps can not.

 

[KEW]

What ever you want to buy.

Why are you so certain you want tube amps?

It is myth and voodoo that tube amps are superior to solid state amps.

While it is true some tube amps are superior to some solid state amps, a well designed solid state amp can achieve a level of performance tube amps can not.

TLS Guy,

I have read that tube amps are a little slower to respond which essentially makes the sound more "mellow" (to put it politely). For this reason, I have avoided them (I like my pizzicato attacks to be pizzicato). Is this correct in your experience?

My apologies to the OP for the thread jack, but hopefully, this is useful info for you as well.

Thanks!

 

[highfigh]

I am looking to buy a tube amp,I have a choice between the mcintosh ma2275 integrated 75watts per channel and a line on a David Berning EA2101 100 watt per channel.Both in the end would come to about the same price.The mac is new and the other one is about 15 years old but re-tubed recently.For the david Bernings i would have to purchase a tube preamp but still coming to about the same price range.any advice would be greatly appreciated,i know its a tough question since i havn,t heard both of them either,just looking for advice.
http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/1007.asp
http://www.davidberning.com/

Why do you need a preamp? The MA2275 is an integrated amp and has a preamp in it.

If it's the one in this link, there should be no problem with handling pizzicato- IM distortion is .5% as long as the output is less than 150W.

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/1007.asp

BTW- Delco Electronics used McIntosh MC75 amps for data transmission at their Oak Creek, WI plant for decades. It was discontinued in the early '60s and it still did what they needed, so I really don't think a sound produced by a human will give it any problems. Pizzicato is caused by the player, not the instrument. The instrument just does what the player tells it to and while the frequencies can be fairly high, there's not a single acoustic instrument that produces a fundamental frequency that's much higher than 5KHz.

 

[highfigh]

TLS Guy,

I have read that tube amps are a little slower to respond which essentially makes the sound more "mellow" (to put it politely). For this reason, I have avoided them (I like my pizzicato attacks to be pizzicato). Is this correct in your experience?

My apologies to the OP for the thread jack, but hopefully, this is useful info for you as well.

Thanks!

Most tube amps sound more mellow because of the harmonic structure of the output signal, not because they're slow to respond. They handle cymbals, triangles and other high frequencies very well, as long as the design allows it. The limiting factor in most tube amps is the output transformers and excessive negative feedback. Tubes can handle very high frequencies on their own.

You ought to try a good tube amp. I think your opinion may change.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Another opinion from The Audio Critiec is that no matter what technology the amplifiers are based on, all great amps will sound the same to our human ears in a true double-blinded objective study.

 

[Barryd]

I realise the mac has a preamp built in,the berning amp would require me to get one,thus in the end making them pretty equal in price.
I have a powerful ss amplifier already that i would leave with my home theatre set up.The tubes would be for a stereo only application combined with a set of magnaplaners i already have.although my ss amp sounds great it is night and day difference in the sound with the tube amps,i had a chance to hear the David Berning amp in my place with the panels and the sound was incredible,very true to life,i haven't heard music with so much detail.
I was just looking for opinions from people who are more experienced in these amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The tubes would be for a stereo only application combined with a set of magnaplaners i already have...although my ss amp sounds great it is night and day difference in the sound with the tube amps.

The difference in sound quality is from comparing two different sets of speakers and from 2 different unmatched sound levels.

Here is a current tube amp review from Audiophile:
http://stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/balanced_audio_technology_vk-55se_power_amplifier/index4.html

Unweighed SNR = 79dB
A-weighed SNR = 97dB
THD: 0.05% (1kHz)
Crosstalk = -100dB (3kHz)
FR: 20Hz - 20kHz +/-0.1dB

This is not any different from any other great SS amp out there.

But there is nothing wrong with getting a tube amp either.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Berning EA-2101 Stereophile

http://stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/875/index4.html

unweighed SNR = 51db (Not Great)
FR: 20Hz-20kHz +/- 1db (Not Great)
Crosstalk: -90db (1kHz)
THD: 1% (1kHz) (Not Great)
Power: 160w (1% THD/ 8 ohms)

I think I would get the McIntosh.

 

[Barryd]

I had the same speakers on both amps,but will use the panels for a stereo set,and boxes for h/t,but thanks for the input on the mac,i was leaning that way myself

 

[highfigh]

I realise the mac has a preamp built in,the berning amp would require me to get one,thus in the end making them pretty equal in price.

DOH! I went back and saw that you meant the Berning.

 

[KEW]

The difference in sound quality is from comparing two different sets of speakers and from 2 different unmatched sound levels.

Here is a current tube amp review from Audiophile:
http://stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/balanced_audio_technology_vk-55se_power_amplifier/index4.html

Unweighed SNR = 79dB
A-weighed SNR = 97dB
THD: 0.05% (1kHz)
Crosstalk = -100dB (3kHz)
FR: 20Hz - 20kHz +/-0.1dB

This is not any different from any other great SS amp out there.

But there is nothing wrong with getting a tube amp either.

Thanks for that review. The square wave response graph pretty well debunks my understanding about slow response. My thanks to you and highfigh for the education!

 

[phantom1]

I have to agree