Does my TV really support a true 24p?

[Stripes]

My LG 60pk750 is supposed to display the following in 24p:

24p Real Cinema (3:3 Pulldown) and 3:2 Pulldown

Do either of these pulldowns actually support, the "surreal fluid movement"
I have seen some displays that display the movie so smooth giving an almost live look to it.

I have tried setting the ps3 to 1080/24p and it doesnt look any different than when it is off?

Am I doing something wrong???

 

[jostenmeat]

My LG 60pk750 is supposed to display the following in 24p:

24p Real Cinema (3:3 Pulldown) and 3:2 Pulldown

According to CNET, it does not support 3:3, or properly handle 24p as it is. However, what's weird is that the reviewer says that he was told by LG he should expect 4:4 (96hz). I think another review might have said it doesn't handle 24p consistently (which seems very weird to me). Quick search function at owner's thread says that EE cannot be defeated with "3:3", but only with 3:2, which is just really stoopid, if true.

Do either of these pulldowns actually support, the "surreal fluid movement"
I have seen some displays that display the movie so smooth giving an almost live look to it.

I suspect that you are confusing proper handling of 24p with FI (frame interpolation), which is something that is extremely common with LCD, and extremely uncommon with plasma (I don't remember a single plasma ever that supported it; they don't need to).

In any case, avoiding 3:2 of 1080/24 is always better. (ok, outside of extremely weird cases such as avoiding EE with your display.)

I have tried setting the ps3 to 1080/24p and it doesnt look any different than when it is off?

Am I doing something wrong???

If you already played with 24p settings of both player and display, then that's all there really is to it. IIRC, some displays might(??) only properly handle 24p on a certain input, perhaps something like HDMI-1, but I'm going on distant and iffy memory there.

 

[Stripes]

If you already played with 24p settings of both player and display, then that's all there really is to it. IIRC, some displays might(??) only properly handle 24p on a certain input, perhaps something like HDMI-1, but I'm going on distant and iffy memory there.

I've looked for some option or setting on my TV to switch it to 24p but I cant find anything. Ive been searching on enabling the "Real Cinema" which is supposed to convert to the 3:3 pulldown but I keep coming up empty. Maybe it does it automatically.

 

[jostenmeat]

I've looked for some option or setting on my TV to switch it to 24p but I cant find anything. Ive been searching on enabling the "Real Cinema" which is supposed to convert to the 3:3 pulldown but I keep coming up empty. Maybe it does it automatically.

Ok, wow, your manual is like 200 pages long. Check out page 136.

I first looked here for the manual, didn't find it:
http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/televisions/LG-plasma-tv-INFINIA-60PK750.jsp

but found one here:
http://www.lg.com/us/support/product/support-product-profile.jsp?customerModelCode=60PK750&matchedModelCode=1000010465&searchEngineModelCode=60PK750&initialTab=warranty&targetPage=support-product-profile#

AH OK. . . it looks like Real Cinema is under Expert 1/2 but only for LCD. Plasma doesn't have it. (There are two diagrams, one for both lcd and another for plasma, next to each other.) Hmmmmm.

FWIW, the easiest place for me to distinguish 3:2 vs X:X is with rolling credits at the end of a movie. There the difference is very dramatic.

 

[Stripes]

It would appear that LG may have some advertising mixup. From what I have found it seems that the plasma's have something called "Film Mode" not "Real Cinema" even though they state on the products page that it features real cinema. Im guessing that this TV actually has a 60Hz refresh rate not a claimed 96Hz. Ive turned the film mode on and off and it doesnt make a difference in pic quality whatsoever. Oh well to me it still has awesome picture quality, 10X better than my LCD. Ive been using break-in slides on it for about 8 hours a day and it seems like the pic looks a little better every time I use it. From what I have read it will look its best after about 100 hours of use.

 

[jostenmeat]

I assume this is always with the PS3 outputting movies at 24p.

I would be surprised if they actually had a film mode in the expert menu that UNsuccessfully avoided 3:2, but maybe you're right.

The real question for me (if what I read before was even true, and was it only for lcd or plasma . . . ) . . . IF that EE cannot be defeated in Real Cinema:

Which looks better? 3:2 left untouched, or 24p with undefeatable EE? I might even guess 3:2 looks better!

If you learn more, I would appreciate it if you shared with us. I will spend time at some point in trying to learn more for you, because you seem like a cool guy. Ciao.

 

[Stripes]

I assume this is always with the PS3 outputting movies at 24p.

I would be surprised if they actually had a film mode in the expert menu that UNsuccessfully avoided 3:2, but maybe you're right.

The real question for me (if what I read before was even true, and was it only for lcd or plasma . . . ) . . . IF that EE cannot be defeated in Real Cinema:

Which looks better? 3:2 left untouched, or 24p with undefeatable EE? I might even guess 3:2 looks better!

If you learn more, I would appreciate it if you shared with us. I will spend time at some point in trying to learn more for you, because you seem like a cool guy. Ciao.

Hey thanks, it seems like the more MH#9 I drink tonight the cooler I get, but my Plasma seems to be losing its high def? Ive looked in the owners manual but I cant find anything

Really though I went out and looked at a Sammy LED that had 24p 5:5 pull down, man I dont know why I even wanted something like that, I know if I had it I would not use it. Of course it was playing Avatar and far away motion of the Colonel face was artifacting really bad. Close up was extremely clear but not much more than 3:3 on my LG, but movement was just plain weird really soap opera like. I have noticed no artifacting or hitching with my LG and the Pic is super smooth and vibrant, contrast is a 3M:1, The reviews have claimed black levels are not in par with "high end" plasmas and LCD/ED's. Which I dont see why its being compared to those models anyway. I paid $1433 for it, I wouldnt say thats a high end price. Ive tried to find the problems that the cnet reviewer found with the 1080/24 but I just cant see them and really dont know what he meant by the set not being able to handle it properly. I had a friend come over and check it out, and if I had a fishing pole I would have caught him. Im going to keep looking into the different calibration modes though, but I think I might have it set up as good as its going to get. Who knows though...

 

[jostenmeat]

Stripes, you are still confused by thinking two completely different things are the same. Like I said before:

I suspect that you are confusing proper handling of 24p with FI (frame interpolation), which is something that is extremely common with LCD, and extremely uncommon with plasma (I don't remember a single plasma ever that supported it; they don't need to).

In any case, avoiding 3:2 of 1080/24 is always better. (ok, outside of extremely weird cases such as avoiding EE with your display.)

Frame interpolation is pure guessing of the "frames" in between your 24 F/S. If a 120hz TV is given 24 frames, there are a potential 96 frames that your display can FAKE OUT! Yes, it's using a chip, an algorithm to guess, and yeah with fast motion it may look terrible. Like I said, I've never once came across a plasma that uses FI. Samsung called theirs MAP or AMP or something, like Auto Motion Plus. What I suspect/fear with their settings, perhaps low mid high, is if this FI can even be completely defeatable (I would hope so, but am not sure).

5:5 on a 120hz tv is simply taking frame number 1, and showing that 5x in a row, and so forth for the next 23 frames. 5 x 24 = 120. On the V10 plasma for instance (which I think is 96hz), it's 4:4, or frame number 1 repeated 4x, and so forth. 3:2 is when you have to somehow fit 24 frames into 60hz. How do you do that? You sort of have to "bleed" the frames together.

Understand now?

 

[Stripes]

Stripes, you are still confused by thinking two completely different things are the same. Like I said before:

I suspect that you are confusing proper handling of 24p with FI (frame interpolation), which is something that is extremely common with LCD, and extremely uncommon with plasma (I don't remember a single plasma ever that supported it; they don't need to).

In any case, avoiding 3:2 of 1080/24 is always better. (ok, outside of extremely weird cases such as avoiding EE with your display.)

Frame interpolation is pure guessing of the "frames" in between your 24 F/S. If a 120hz TV is given 24 frames, there are a potential 96 frames that your display can FAKE OUT! Yes, it's using a chip, an algorithm to guess, and yeah with fast motion it may look terrible. Like I said, I've never once came across a plasma that uses FI. Samsung called theirs MAP or AMP or something, like Auto Motion Plus. What I suspect/fear with their settings, perhaps low mid high, is if this FI can even be completely defeatable (I would hope so, but am not sure).

5:5 on a 120hz tv is simply taking frame number 1, and showing that 5x in a row, and so forth for the next 23 frames. 5 x 24 = 120. On the V10 plasma for instance (which I think is 96hz), it's 4:4, or frame number 1 repeated 4x, and so forth. 3:2 is when you have to somehow fit 24 frames into 60hz. How do you do that? You sort of have to "bleed" the frames together.

Understand now?

Ok I think I have a better understanding- Refresh rate divisable by 24 is optimum, if its not 24p will not be properly displayed...So FI is what creates that soap opera look right?

 

[jostenmeat]

Ok I think I have a better understanding- Refresh rate divisable by 24 is optimum, if its not 24p will not be properly displayed...So FI is what creates that soap opera look right?

Yes, and yes.

Now, while we can say that if it's not divisible by 24 it won't work, but just because it IS divisible does NOT guarantee that you are out of the woods.

You see there are some 120hz displays that pull a real fast one on the consumers. Instead of doing 5:5, they actually still do a 3:2 as if it was a 60hz display, and then a 2:2 to get those 60 frames up to 120. Yeah I know it sounds like even more work in a way, but it's older tech, so it's probably cheaper. There have been multiple models from multiple brands that have done this recently.

120 is a nice number because both 60 and 24 fit into it (lowest common denominator).