New to Boating and Need Help

[TLS Guy]

I agree that a stern drive isn't as efficient and requires more maintenance. People neglect the oil seals, wind fishing line around the prop shaft and then wonder why they have water in the gear oil (happens with OB and stern drive), don't fill the gear oil reservoir, almost NEVER clean the flame arrestor, etc. The fact that the prop can be raised is a good thing and in certain conditions, trimming the boat makes life much easier for many, not for some (they don't understand how it affects planing and visibility).

The thing about OB motors- not as many boat manufacturers offer them on their best boat models. It's usually stern drive, or nothing and when it's a Mercruiser, it can be problematic, as I posted. I hate to say this, considering they're originally based in WI but they really have been forced to drop their quality by Brunswick.

Re Merc OB- I didn't know Suzuki was involved- is that because of the lawsuit against Yamaha, who got their 4 stroke OB motors to run well, back in the late '90s? Those were nice. Virtually the same as the regular Yamaha line and really easy to start. Very smooth.

Just more evidence of the US decent into the third world ranks. The Mercury four cycle engines they built could not get through a season. So they quickly sourced power heads from the Far east.

I think boat manufacturers are changing back to outboards again.

The Sea Hunt Escape which is a nice Bow rider comes with the Yamaha 150 HP four cycle from the factory.

 

[highfigh]

Just more evidence of the US decent into the third world ranks. The Mercury four cycle engines they built could not get through a season. So they quickly sourced power heads from the Far east.

I think boat manufacturers are changing back to outboards again.

The Sea Hunt Escape which is a nice Bow rider comes with the Yamaha 150 HP four cycle from the factory.

Labor costs, coupled with EPA requirements, C.A.R.B. and unmotivated workers is a big chunk of the problem. When I stopped working on boats, a 250HP Merc OB listed at $15,900 and people still bought them. THAT'S A WHOLE BOAT! Totally insane. Then, there's always the dreaded FICHT system that buried Outboard Marine. I know we have good engineers in the US. What we also have is management that wants big bonuses for getting a project done, with no real recognition for the people who are actually getting the job done. Managers who like to micro-manage every project they get are a huge problem, along with managers who are totally unqualified. I have a friend who works for a defense contractor and he hates it. The bright patches are few and far between and just about every other engineer says basically the same thing about their job.

I have no problem with companies collaborating, if it means better products are the result. Yamaha chose to dump their products on the US market at the end of the agreement term with Mercury Marine, and that created an unfair market. Merc has a hard enough time making a profit and in a bad economy, they're in the position of moving a large amount of their manufacturing out of WI because it costs less in other places.

IMO, the glut of MBAs has made small increments at the bottom line more important than product quality and company reputation. When a series of recalls is looked at as "accounting issues" and they decide not to do things right because the potential cost of a recall is an "acceptable risk", we all lose. It doesn't matter what the product is, either.

 

[TLS Guy]

Labor costs, coupled with EPA requirements, C.A.R.B. and unmotivated workers is a big chunk of the problem. When I stopped working on boats, a 250HP Merc OB listed at $15,900 and people still bought them. THAT'S A WHOLE BOAT! Totally insane. Then, there's always the dreaded FICHT system that buried Outboard Marine. I know we have good engineers in the US. What we also have is management that wants big bonuses for getting a project done, with no real recognition for the people who are actually getting the job done. Managers who like to micro-manage every project they get are a huge problem, along with managers who are totally unqualified. I have a friend who works for a defense contractor and he hates it. The bright patches are few and far between and just about every other engineer says basically the same thing about their job.

I have no problem with companies collaborating, if it means better products are the result. Yamaha chose to dump their products on the US market at the end of the agreement term with Mercury Marine, and that created an unfair market. Merc has a hard enough time making a profit and in a bad economy, they're in the position of moving a large amount of their manufacturing out of WI because it costs less in other places.

IMO, the glut of MBAs has made small increments at the bottom line more important than product quality and company reputation. When a series of recalls is looked at as "accounting issues" and they decide not to do things right because the potential cost of a recall is an "acceptable risk", we all lose. It doesn't matter what the product is, either.

You have it all about right. That FICHT was a very sorry episode. They did a really bad design, and made them in Mexico. If they had made them in Wisconsin there is a good bet some senior machinists would have told them they weren't going to build them because they were not in the habit of building engines that would blow up.

Those engines round here could not provide more than five hours of use. Most were towed home first trip out on Leech lake.

I think every single engine sold by resort Marine of Walker locked up pronto.

The they went broke and Bombardier, who bought the OB division, were not in a position to honor the warranties. They were not fixable anyway. Some people round here were out as much as $20,000 or more on the 200 HP plus engines.

That whole episode I regarded as a watershed event.

They used to make good engines. My 1953 Evinrude fast twin is a lovely little motor. I was out with my 1963 18 HP Johnson today and it went like a rocket.

MBA programs at the universities should be closed. Every MBA is a serious blot on mankind. None of them are the slightest use and go around doing untold harm.

 

[highfigh]

You have it all about right. That FICHT was a very sorry episode. They did a really bad design, and made them in Mexico. If they had made them in Wisconsin there is a good bet some senior machinists would have told them they weren't going to build them because they were not in the habit of building engines that would blow up.

Those engines round here could not provide more than five hours of use. Most were towed home first trip out on Leech lake.

I think every single engine sold by resort Marine of Walker locked up pronto.

The they went broke and Bombardier, who bought the OB division, were not in a position to honor the warranties. They were not fixable anyway. Some people round here were out as much as $20,000 or more on the 200 HP plus engines.

That whole episode I regarded as a watershed event.

They used to make good engines. My 1953 Evinrude fast twin is a lovely little motor. I was out with my 1963 18 HP Johnson today and it went like a rocket.

MBA programs at the universities should be closed. Every MBA is a serious blot on mankind. None of them are the slightest use and go around doing untold harm.

The first FICHT motor I had to look at had a mark on each spark plug and we had another part-time guy who did some service there. I asked why they had the marks and he explained that the plugs were not to be randomly inserted in the heads- the ground electrode needed to be placed directly in the fuel spray, so it wouldn't burn off.

Oddly enough, it came in because it had stopped running. I pulled the plugs to do a compression test and the end of one was melted. I got the OK to pull the heads and that cylinder's piston had melted, looking like large beads of silver styrofoam. It was actually fused to the head, slightly.

Old Evinrude were one thing but at the end, it was just them treading water to squeeze every cent of profit out of the design. I got an old ELTO motor from a neighbor whose garage had burned and I cleaned it up. I tried to get it to start but it never had spark. Nobody had info about it (this was in the early '70s) since it was long before the internet and it was made in the very early 1920s. I kept it around and used the carb as an assignment for my mechanical drawing class (none of the other items available were much of a challenge) and sold it when someone made an offer.

It looked a lot like this one:
http://www.penn.itgo.com/images/elto/album/pages/336-Elto-Folding-Lig#20010.html

 

[Qfirefighter]

But, again, that's a flatter hull and won't ride as smooth on choppy water. Also, for a newb, low speed manuevers are a lot trickier than an OB or stern-drive.

Not even the fuel pump?

Hey- I know you! JimN here.

knock on wood not even the fuel pump. Keep it full. How ya doing JimN long time.

 

[highfigh]

knock on wood not even the fuel pump. Keep it full. How ya doing JimN long time.

Doing OK- we had huge T-storms last week and my power went out twice, so my sump pump was off when it was needed most.

 

[lsiberian]

Is their anyplace around there that offers boat rentals? I suggest you give it few trips and see what you like before you go buying a boat. My grandfather and uncle have boats and they sit in the garage. It's a lot of work to go out to the lake or ocean. I suspect you'd probably save money renting a boat out when you want to go out. Unless it's a hobby you want to pursue.

Think of the B&W 802Ds and a pair of 18 LMS Ultra's. Something tells me you'd use those more.