Help with 60" tv choice.

[andy11]

Hello,
Sitting about 13 feet back. Doesn't look like I can upload photos from home computer of living room?

Well, looking for a good but affordable 60" LED TV. No interest in 3D and doesn't have to be 240hz.

I have been looking at the Samsung un60c6300, which is about $2700 now and probably will drop a few hundred more in next few months. But, for $2200-2700 price range, is there something else I should consider.


Now, I know some of you may want to recommend DLP or Plasma. Wife is dead set against plasma (that's a losing battle). Samsung had a regular LCD 60" I saw at Best buy for $2200. Actually, looked quite nice. So, tough call.
I certainly don't want to drop over $2000 and not walk out with at least a LED of some type. What do you think? Thanks for your assistance.

 

[andy11]

Here are photos of the livingroom. 12-13' viewing distance.

 

[Stripes]

I myself just embarked on a 60" journey. A 60" LED for 2k is going to be hard to find, especially 240Hz. I think "hard" might also be wishfull thinking try next to impossible unless you find a once in a lifetime deal.

An LCD might be eaiser to attain at that price but 240Hz are a little harder to find in 60", Sharp has one.

Why is the wife against plasma? They are better in almost every aspect than LED and LCD. I do see that you have a big window in your viewing area so if you like to watch in a bright room then of course plasma isnt your best choice.

 

[andy11]

Hello.
Yes, there is light that comes out of kitchen, often some light in overhead ceiling, and then the possible light that comes from behind sofa from outside.

Also, my wife (I have to admit me to) was really into the projection of color and brightness from the led's. Also, the simple point that we would rather "invest" in a newer technology at this point. Not a fair answer, but the truth.

I think there was a misunderstanding. I meant to say we are NOT interested in 3D and NOT interested in needing 240Hz. Does that change your opinion on which led at 60" would be worth considering?

 

[Hi Ho]

LEDs really have nothing to do with the color. It's just another method of lighting an LCD TV. I don't have a lot of experience with LCD sets of that size but I can say that I wouldn't buy the ones I have seen. I have the most experience with Sony's 60 inch LCDs and I am not impressed. They have very poor viewing angles.

I really think a plasma is your best bet to get a screen that size in that price range. You will get a better picture in just about every aspect at a lower price.

 

[andy11]

Wow! That is a loaded comment. I am new to audoholics, but it sounds like a "audioholic field marshall" must know what he is talking about.

There is a lot of ambient lot in the room, especially coming from the windows behind the sofa, as well as, often the kitchen light on the side. Does this make a difference on your comment?

In that case. I know there are "newer" plasmas out there, and less of a concern with burn in (is that true)? Also, what brand then would you consider for a ~60" plasma. Thanks for your help.

 

[Stripes]

In your situation and the lighting in your room, I personally would stay away from a plasma if you have that much light coming in the room, daytime viewing would not be very enjoyable with as much light as you have in there. If you had controlled light in your room I would say plasma hands down, but different needs require different types of equipment.

Here are a few LCD-LED that are right around the 2k price range, some a little more some a little less.

Samsung 60" 1080p 120Hz LCD HDTV Model: LN60C630
Sharp - 60E88UN | AQUOS / 60" Class / 1080p / 240Hz / LCD HDTV
LG 55" Class 1080p 240Hz LED HDTV Model: 55LH90
Samsung 55" Class 1080p 120Hz LED HDTV Model: UN55C6500
Sharp 60" Class AQUOS 1080p 120Hz LED HDTV Model: LC60LE810UN

 

[Hi Ho]

The newest Panasonic models (G25 and higher) look great in a bright room. The anti-reflective coatings are amazingly good and the panels hold a nice black in a bright environment which is definetly a weak point on many plasmas, especially older ones.

Also, many LCD's now have glossy screens with NO anti-reflective properties. I am not certain, but I believe the Samsung LN60C630 has a glossy screen. I know the UN55C6500 does. The LG does not. Don't know about the Sharp models.

 

[Stripes]

Also, many LCD's now have glossy screens with NO anti-reflective properties. I am not certain, but I believe the Samsung LN60C630 has a glossy screen. I know the UN55C6500 does. The LG does not. Don't know about the Sharp models.

I meant to put a disclaimer on my post that I didnt actually have experience with these displays. Just trying to give the o.p. an idea of what is out there for him, but its true that more sets are going with the glossy screen, I've even read a few places that it improves the display, No facts on that though.

 

[andy11]

Hello,
Yes, looked into the pana plasmas. But, I am really looking for a roughly 60" tv, and even the g25's only go up to 54"???

Does anyone have any comment comparing these led's:
Samsung 60" 1080p 120Hz LCD HDTV Model: LN60C630
Sharp - 60E88UN | AQUOS / 60" Class / 1080p / 240Hz / LCD HDTV
LG 55" Class 1080p 240Hz LED HDTV Model: 55LH90
Samsung 55" Class 1080p 120Hz LED HDTV Model: UN55C6500
Sharp 60" Class AQUOS 1080p 120Hz LED HDTV Model: LC60LE810UN

Thanks

Also, some of these are lcd not lcd-led.
I took a long look at the 55LH90, thought it got great ratings and is last year's model. But, its only 55"! Ay

I liked the Samsung 6500, but doesn't really seem like that much of an improvement over the 6300? Can someone clarify if the 6500 has any substantial improvements over the 6300?

Lastly, I saw in best buy a 60" Samsung LCD next to a 55" and 60" lcd-led. What are the major disadvantages if I go with the older lcd, and skip the lcd-led?

Thanks

 

[Warpdrv]

Have you seen that Panasonic has 58" Plasma's

The Panasonic TC-P58V10 or Panasonic TC-P58S2

https://clevelandplasma.com/store/plasma_tv_s/panasonic

 

[jostenmeat]

Hello,
Yes, looked into the pana plasmas. But, I am really looking for a roughly 60" tv, and even the g25's only go up to 54"???

Does anyone have any comment comparing these led's:
Samsung 60" 1080p 120Hz LCD HDTV Model: LN60C630
Sharp - 60E88UN | AQUOS / 60" Class / 1080p / 240Hz / LCD HDTV
LG 55" Class 1080p 240Hz LED HDTV Model: 55LH90
Samsung 55" Class 1080p 120Hz LED HDTV Model: UN55C6500
Sharp 60" Class AQUOS 1080p 120Hz LED HDTV Model: LC60LE810UN

Thanks

Also, some of these are lcd not lcd-led.
I took a long look at the 55LH90, thought it got great ratings and is last year's model. But, its only 55"! Ay

I liked the Samsung 6500, but doesn't really seem like that much of an improvement over the 6300? Can someone clarify if the 6500 has any substantial improvements over the 6300?

Lastly, I saw in best buy a 60" Samsung LCD next to a 55" and 60" lcd-led. What are the major disadvantages if I go with the older lcd, and skip the lcd-led?

Thanks

Hello andy11. For full disclosure, we are for the great part very pro plasma here, including myself who has never once owned either lcd nor plasma (have been using front projection in a dedicated room). So, I do think you should try to find a subforum not just dedicated to displays, but in fact LCD flat panels, if you really want to split hairs between these models. That said, my couple cents:

Yeah, Pana's funny like that with sizing with different models. I don't know how long it's been, but last year it's the same thing: mid-line only goes so big, and only the lower/highest lines get to the largest size. The highest line will only go so small, which is a good thing, because why pay for quality when the display is too small for anyone to really discern it (sure, a few people might sit only 3.5ft away, but anyhoo).

LG has reliability issues according to a couple of people I trust, including BMXTRIX.

Samsung has been the leader in LCD flat panels as of late. Now to help you split hairs, here are couple of things I would look into (but you'll have to do the footwork). With any 120hz display, I would make damn sure it is doing a 5:5 pulldown of 24p. Now, I expect them all today to do so, but actually, my fingers would have to be crossed. A number of manufacturers during the last couple of years, and I'm pretty sure Samsung was one of them, was touting "120hz", yet for 24p (ALL OF YOUR MOVIES ON BLURAY), were still given 3:2 pulldown, with a 2:2 to get it to 120hz. This is called BULLCRAP!

Next, if I had a gun to my head and HAD to choose LCD flat panel (which I never would), I would go for the gold, and try to land a local dimming set, in hopes of better blacks and intrascene contrast.

After that, it would be about calibration flexibility.

Sharp, well, I know they've supposedly made a decent panel every once in a while, but honestly, I think the worst large displays I have ever seen have all been Sharp. Also, and I can't find it even after search engine exercises, AH had an article about a huge class action lawsuit where Sharp had to pay some ridiculous amount of money, having been nailed for price fixing their LCD displays. I have a hard time buying from any company that does that, so I doubt I will ever buy a Sharp display during my entire lifetime.

For glare on recent plasmas, no you do not want direct light hitting it. Ambient light is fine, but any direct light on last year's Panas, and you'll see the reflection. However, direct light on any panel is bad. Direct light on my projection system would be catastrophic!

I vote for plasma for better performance, and for less money. There is a different "look" to the two displays. Plasma is often described as natural. Go to the store perhaps.

The best 60" tv ever made, in fact, the best tv ever made in the history of the world, period, is Pioneers Pro 141 panel. (related to 111, 151, krp600m, 500m). You can still find them, but not with the spectacular deals immediately following pio's decision to DC plasmas. I guess you'd have pay full figures, like 7.5k or so. But, man, I almost thought about one of those KRPs for $2k, that woulda been sweet . . .

good luck.

 

[jostenmeat]

Sharp, well, I know they've supposedly made a decent panel every once in a while, but honestly, I think the worst large displays I have ever seen have all been Sharp. Also, and I can't find it even after search engine exercises, AH had an article about a huge class action lawsuit where Sharp had to pay some ridiculous amount of money, having been nailed for price fixing their LCD displays. I have a hard time buying from any company that does that, so I doubt I will ever buy a Sharp display during my entire lifetime.

I guess I won't ever buy an LG panel either. I found the article. $585,000,000 settlement.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/lg-sharp-lcd-price-fixing

 

[dapack69]

I own a 50" plasma and a 47" LCD, not that much of a size difference when you think about it, but the LCD is in the bedroom for a reason.

 

[andy11]

For awhile, I have been keeping an eye on the prices for the
Samsung UN60C6300 model?

It seems for a "quality" plasma, I am still going to run well over $2000. So, if the Samsung 6300 comes down a few more hundred bucks, it seems like a good choice?

I wish I could go up to a 7000 or 8000 series. Not for the 3D, but for perhaps better picture for other reasons, but simply too expensive. Is going the 6300 series a mistake over a plasma.

 

[jostenmeat]

For awhile, I have been keeping an eye on the prices for the
Samsung UN60C6300 model?

It seems for a "quality" plasma, I am still going to run well over $2000. So, if the Samsung 6300 comes down a few more hundred bucks, it seems like a good choice?

I wish I could go up to a 7000 or 8000 series. Not for the 3D, but for perhaps better picture for other reasons, but simply too expensive. Is going the 6300 series a mistake over a plasma.

Like I said, few of us (if anyone at all) really knows their LCDs here. Ok, you can try sending a PM to DTV TiVo Dealer, as well, he is a dealer. I'm not trying to be rude, am trying to be helpful, but it's just how it is here, sorry.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/member.php?u=10091

The Pana 58V10 is a couple hundred dollars under your budget. It will properly handle 24p at 96hz I believe it was, has very good calibration flexibility per input (especially at this price), and has the very useful THX mode for lights off, highest OTB color accuracy viewing, etc. The 65" version will break the bank by a half grand or so.

Oh, did I mention that it will outperform any LCD you can find at this price?

To get an idea of how much you give up in size, use this TV calculator . . . here I saved the 58 vs 60 vs 65 for you:

http://tvcalculator.com/index.html?39d388731e85d4ca480094429dea35cf

 

[andy11]

Thank you very much.
Yes! Very interested in the pana 58v10.
However...question please?

There are definitely a few comments, some from users, and 1 or 2 from supposed experts regarding the black level issue in this model and I think some of the 2009 pana's versus the 2010's like the g20 and g25.

Also, one user specifically commented on a greying out of the blacks over time.

Now, I don't even know if the g20, g25 or I think the VT's? come in a 58" for a reasonable price. What is your feeling on this black issue?

Thanks

 

[jostenmeat]

Yes, I didn't mention the V25 because of the price, but if I bought one today, that would very likely be it.

I think this was the last time I talked about my "feelings" with rising blacks on the last gen Pannys.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=720361&postcount=19

What do I feel right now? I feel that . . .

1. If you have any lights on, you probably won't notice.

2. If you have it on any mode besides THX, you probably won't notice.

3. If you haven't calibrated the TV, you probably won't notice.

If you have done NONE of the above, I can nearly guarantee you that you will not notice.

Oh and btw, I bet a VERY small proportion of owners even have it on THX, or calibrated, or with lights off. My friend with a 65V10 has done none of the above. After explaining it very simply, as if he was a child, he still never even tried* to figure out how to get 4:4 pulldown of 24p, for example. I fixed that last time I was over. OH, he also had no damn idea that other modes outside of THX has it defaulted with NR settings (which look HORRID to me). Yes, I fixed that too.

Remember, people like brighter displays. Why do you think so many uneducated people bought LCDs on torch mode?

The rising blacks is not rising blacks so much as it is just brighter overall. The voltage has increased.

Even if voltage increases prematurely, one day it will be perfect. OH, right, should I expect you to calibrate your TV to begin with, of starting from THX mode as calibrators do? I would bet a small sum that won't happen, because it rarely does.

Needless to say, with my friend's V10, I can't notice any rising blacks, and he's had it close to a year. Lights are always on, even at night, he never has it on THX, and he's never calibrated it. Probably like 99% of the people who own a V10.

Then here's the real question. Even if with a premature rise in blacks, will it actually look worse than the LCDs you are looking at? Yes, plasma has a big advantage to start with. Now, if you were looking at local dimming led backlit, this may become much more competitive.

 

[andy11]

Very interesting stuff.
I did get a bit confused on whether the 58V10 is handling the 24p correctly. I thought you don't want 3:2?

Also, very surprised at the "updated" CNET post which tears into the 58v10 about the graying out of the blacks (I assume that is what you mean by "rising" of the blacks".

 

[jostenmeat]

Very interesting stuff.
I did get a bit confused on whether the 58V10 is handling the 24p correctly. I thought you don't want 3:2?

Also, very surprised at the "updated" CNET post which tears into the 58v10 about the graying out of the blacks (I assume that is what you mean by "rising" of the blacks".

Yes, it's the same issue. I think he also teared into my JVC RS1 projector for oversaturated reds/greens, which has been quite documented (as well as doing that at times with Pana plasmas perhaps), but it's still the greatest pic I've ever seen in any home. I've seen the RS25 in action in a demo room, but I have a bigger screen with better light control (even if their walls were all dark red).

You can ask him directly, perhaps, if there is any LCD in your ballpark range that will outperform with blacks. Some go for Samsung plasmas instead, getting better OTB color accuracy, but perhaps giving it up with blacks, contrast, and reliability. Oh yeah, no documented rising blacks either.

Oh, as to the first question, V10s handle 24p properly.