Best sub for $300-400

[andy11]

Hello.
I really like the SVS sub's but are very expensive.

I have seen incredible deals on either:
1. BIC Kevlar VK-12
or
2. Acoustech PL-200.

Inside of 13x14' living room attached to a kitchen.

Thanks

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

eD A2 - 250 if you don't mind it's size (W - 13.75", H - 13.75", D - 24.5" at 58lbs) will be your best bet for your buck - $325 + s&h.
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=406
but you'll probably will need something much bigger (out of your budget)

 

[AVRat]

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

 

[andy11]

AVRat. Heard a lot about Hsu. Looks like a good sub. Other than reputation, the power output from the other 2 models, which are 12" at same to lower price, seem like really good choices as well?

 

[sholling]

Assuming that the kitchen is no bigger than the living room then you're at roughly 3000cuft. If that's the case either of the two suggestions should work fine or you could splurge on a eD A2-300 for $15 over your budget. However with any of these down firing subs I'd budget for a SubDude or Gramma to put under it - especially if you're in an apartment.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

A2-300 would be a better choice for large space (kitchen is part of it - you want it or not) however eD never does free shipping on sub, so $50-60 on shipping should be counted in. With shipping A2-300 would be about $60-70 over budget

HSU subs are awesome, however I feel that particular model might be underspec'd for your space size...

 

[andy11]

Thank you both. The ED seems like an interesting option. I actually think the ED now does come with free fedex. The livingroom is carpeted in a 2 story home. Not an apartment. Do you still recommend that isolation pad?

Also, any particular comments I why the ED over the larger more powerful BIC or acoustech subs I mentioned? Thank you both

Also, sholling, any particular difference between gramma, subdude, and the isolation pad for $60 from ED?

 

[sholling]

Thank you both. The ED seems like an interesting option. I actually think the ED now does come with free fedex. The livingroom is carpeted in a 2 story home. Not an apartment. Do you still recommend that isolation pad?

Also, any particular comments I why the ED over the larger more powerful BIC or acoustech subs I mentioned? Thank you both

Also, sholling, any particular difference between gramma, subdude, and the isolation pad for $60 from ED?

eD does offer free FedEx ground and I assume that they honor the advertised offer. They just almost never have anything in stock so you can expect to wait until the next production run. I would get a firm commitment on the ship date before handing over payment and an agreement not to ding your card until it ships. Hsu and SVS tend to maintain an inventory.

Isolation pads are still a good idea. I have one under my massive down firing SVS PB12-Plus/2 even though it's on carpet over a concrete slab. I found that it sounds a wee bit better and shakes the house less.

Subwoofers are really a specialty and I like buying them from specialists. That said just based on specs the Bic should do well for music. But my own taste for movies makes me lean toward subs that go below 20hz. Down into the can't hear it but can still feel it range. But I'm an action movie guy.

 

[its phillip]

eD does free shipping to CONUS.

And while the wattage ratings of the BIC subwoofers are higher than that of the eD sub, the response on the spec pages gives the advantage to the eD - 18-100Hz +/-3dB (A2-250) vs 22Hz - 200Hz (PL-200) and 24 HZ - 200 KHZ (VK-12). The eD is also heavier and has a higher SPL if that matters to you - 58 lbs & 113.11 dB vs 52lbs & 110 dB and 48 lbs & 92 dB.

Everything I posted was from the manufacturer pages, not from my personal experience.

 

[andy11]

Hello. Thanks for that. Well, I am really not going to be able to crank things up anyway. It's a family room with a 2 year old running around. However, I am interested in ensuring there will be ample low end to fill this living room 13'x14' which is attached to a kitched about 10'x 18'

???

 

[sholling]

It's going to be more of a challenge for a toddler to put a pencil through the driver of a down firing sub than a front firing sub. Of course he/she can still pour milk in the port.

 

[KEW]

Of course he/she can still pour milk in the port.

Dad's keys are fun to slide in there too!

 

[sholling]

Dad's keys are fun to slide in there too!

Especially when dad is almost late for work.

 

[BufordTJustice]

I owned an A2-300 for about a year before I bought an eD A7s-450 (free shipping on that as well.

The BIC sub is good....but it doesn't even begin to compare to the A2-300. Period. One of my good friends has a BIC and it's a really good sub...but it neither goes as low, plays as loud, or is as accurate as the A2-300.

The free shipping is legit. If they can ship my 140+ lb A7s-450 from Iowa to Florida, your 75lb A2-300 will ship for free in the CONUS.

Further, the 200 watt rating on the eD sub is an RMS rating of actual tested wattage delivered to the driver at rated impedance...it outputs dynamic power up to 500-700 watts (per eD's design staff; I asked). I am confident that you will be quite happy with an A2-300 (you'll forget about the $15 extra....guaranteed). If there is a wait, it's worth it.

I sold my A2-300 to my buddy who used to sell BOSE and was a huge BOSE fanboy. Not anymore. He loves the damn thing.

As for my A7s-450, it's an amazing sub and can't be compared to any sub in its price range save for possibly the Epik Empire. I used to just leave the sub off while watching TV, but the A7s-450 is so accurate and musical...I leave it on all the time now. Can't get enough.

I have also owned HSU Research (Original VTF-2 w/ 10" driver) and was utterly pleased with its performance (sold it to my brother who uses it in his bedroom and loves it). However, for value, HSU has been eclipsed by Epik and Elemental Designs. HSU's quality cannot be called into question, so please don't misconstrue my comments. I have also heard several SVS subs for brief sessions in other people's rooms and they sounded fantastic as well (great mid-bass impact). Their value I would equate to HSU...very good, but, as I stated before, they too have been eclipsed in value by Epik and eD.

 

[shadyJ]

I have also owned HSU Research (Original VTF-2 w/ 10" driver) and was utterly pleased with its performance (sold it to my brother who uses it in his bedroom and loves it). However, for value, HSU has been eclipsed by Epik and Elemental Designs. HSU's quality cannot be called into question, so please don't misconstrue my comments. I have also heard several SVS subs for brief sessions in other people's rooms and they sounded fantastic as well (great mid-bass impact). Their value I would equate to HSU...very good, but, as I stated before, they too have been eclipsed in value by Epik and eD.

I would agree with you, but only if you are talking about raw SPL. SVS and Hsu, and also Outlaw Audio, may not give you the same loudness to dollar ratio as ED or Epik, but they do come close. But there are other advantages that Hsu, SVS, and Outlaw have over ED and epik as well.

 

[BufordTJustice]

I would agree with you, but only if you are talking about raw SPL. SVS and Hsu, and also Outlaw Audio, may not give you the same loudness to dollar ratio as ED or Epik, but they do come close. But there are other advantages that Hsu, SVS, and Outlaw have over ED and epik as well.

For my situation, I moved into a living room where the HSU became undersized. It struggled to approach reference levels and bottomed-out often. It was time to retire it and, for the money, the A2-300 was the only sub that could fill the space without strain for under $400 (price at the time). The HSU is quite musical and the SVS sounds great as well, but for filling a room with sound for home theater purposes, it's hard to find more value than the A2-300. Having heard SVS, HSU (and Outlaw), Epik, and eD, I just don't see what the latter two can't match from the first three. I don't want to get in a pissing contest, and I view them all as equal performers...but I could only respectfully agree that the companies offer different 'sounds'...but that the new value leaders must be Epik and eD. My eD A7s-450 matches the output in my living room at 20 hz of my friend's two VTF-3 Mk3's. This is not an indictment of the HSU, but a show of the value of a single A7s-450...I paid about half as much when including shipping.

OP, really what you need to do is listen to the subs yourself with material that is familiar to you (ideally in you own room). Carry an SPL meter and balance the sub levels, even if they are on different sites and different days...and listen. If you like one of these brands, you can't go wrong. Period.

 

[shadyJ]

For my situation, I moved into a living room where the HSU became undersized. It struggled to approach reference levels and bottomed-out often. It was time to retire it and, for the money, the A2-300 was the only sub that could fill the space without strain for under $400 (price at the time). The HSU is quite musical and the SVS sounds great as well, but for filling a room with sound for home theater purposes, it's hard to find more value than the A2-300. Having heard SVS, HSU (and Outlaw), Epik, and eD, I just don't see what the latter two can't match from the first three. I don't want to get in a pissing contest, and I view them all as equal performers...but I could only respectfully agree that the companies offer different 'sounds'...but that the new value leaders must be Epik and eD. My eD A7s-450 matches the output in my living room at 20 hz of my friend's two VTF-3 Mk3's. This is not an indictment of the HSU, but a show of the value of a single A7s-450...I paid about half as much when including shipping.

OP, really what you need to do is listen to the subs yourself with material that is familiar to you (ideally in you own room). Carry an SPL meter and balance the sub levels, even if they are on different sites and different days...and listen. If you like one of these brands, you can't go wrong. Period.

The VTF2 mk2 wasn't really meant for big rooms. I used to have a STF2 which was very similar to the old VTF2. It was a great sub, but it won't pressurize a large space.

As for the A7s-450, I have hard time believing that two VTF3's could not match a 450 at 20 hertz, except if the VTF3's were in max output mode. Just look at the physics: two ported 12" drivers in enclosures tuned to 18 hertz vs a sealed 18" driver. You may very well be correct, but on paper, the VTF's are pushing a lot more air than an A7s. Below the VTF's rolloff, I would expect the ED to have more output, but that doesn't happen at 20 hertz. For the ED to have more output than the VTF's above the rolloff, it would need to have some amazing excursion ability, which it might, I don't know.

 

[BufordTJustice]

The VTF2 mk2 wasn't really meant for big rooms. I used to have a STF2 which was very similar to the old VTF2. It was a great sub, but it won't pressurize a large space.

As for the A7s-450, I have hard time believing that two VTF3's could not match a 450 at 20 hertz, except if the VTF3's were in max output mode. Just look at the physics: two ported 12" drivers in enclosures tuned to 18 hertz vs a sealed 18" driver. You may very well be correct, but on paper, the VTF's are pushing a lot more air than an A7s. Below the VTF's rolloff, I would expect the ED to have more output, but that doesn't happen at 20 hertz. For the ED to have more output than the VTF's above the rolloff, it would need to have some amazing excursion ability, which it might, I don't know.

I would have to differ. I calculate that the 12" drivers in the HSU subs would each displace roughly 1700-1800 cubic centimeters if they had about 18-20mm of maximum linear excursion (I do not know the excursion of the VTFsMk3's driver, but I give Dr. HSU the benefit with a healthy excursion figure), for a total of 3400-3600 cubic centimeters of linear displacement. The ports can augment output, but only at certain frequencies. The 18" driver in my A7s linearly displaces just over 5800 cubic centimeters (22mm of one-way linear displacement) and is able to take advantage of it with it's 1295 watt rms amp. So, going on this very basic and ballpark-ish calculation (yes, it is a gross oversimplification), the two HSUs still do not approach the basic linear displacement of the eD A7s. They are ported, which adds efficiency and augments output at the port tuning frequency and above...but for the two HSU 12" subs to overcome such a huge gap would surprise me greatly. This math makes sense, as it is commonly recognized that an 18" driver has about 35-40% more cone surface area than a 15" driver of equivalent manufacture (i.e same cone design/profile, same surround design proportions, etc.). The two HSU VTF3's shook the room mightily...but they just aren't moving as much air as even a single 18" driver. Both of us have 'crawled for bass' and both of our rooms are as optimized as they are ever gonna get as long as we are both married. To my ears and to my buddy's ears, the pod emergence scene in war of the worlds and the sonic cannon scene in the hulk were louder on my system by an easily discernable margin. Additonally, my room is slightly larger than his. Aside from pushing the outer limits of the subs (it was stupid loud in both systems), they both sound very similar (if not identical) at regular listening levels. Like I said, he is thrilled with his setup and has no interest or desire to change (nor should he...it sounds amazing). Conversely, I am thrilled with mine and will be set for quite some time as well.

On another note, I recently heard a ULS15 and was duly impressed. It sounded identical to my A7s at normal listening levels (i.e. tight, dynamic, and deep). Was only listening to music, but it sounds fantastic. If you're a HSU fan and you want a sealed sub, the ULS15 should make you very happy.