Sub Upgrade Suggestions?

[speakerman39]

Hey Phil!

Thanks so much for the suggestions here, buddy! I appreciate them; the links you provided lended some insight -- your first link in which you rate the SVS I was thinking of a 4++ is interesting; this thing is that much of a beast, huh? Do you think I would need two subs using this thing -- and do you concur with the member who believed the SVS will outshake my current Polk PSW350?

And I wouldn't have even thought of considering an Outlaw; how does it stack up against the SVS's and HSU's?

Pearl, glad I could be of some help. Now to some of your questions:

Yes, the SVS PB12-NSD is that much of a "beast". By that, I mean especially with home theater applications. Not to mention, SVS's legendary customer support. About the best I have ever seen from any company period! Moreover, the PB12-NSD has also been improved musically from what I garner since doing my reviews. That should tell you something about SVS's commitment to being among the elite.

As far as needing (2) subs is a question that SVS can best answer. My room was around 3,000 ft^3 when I did my review. As such, I really needed a second sub. Make no mistake about it, down low the PB12-NSD is at its best AND does so with authority. As others here have already said, I can easily verify that the SVS PB12-NSD will walk all over that Polk sub. In fact, it will do so w/o ever even breaking a sweat so to speak.

In closing, the Outlaw subs have and will continue to perform quite well with the likes of SVS, Hsu, and etc. All offer great subs in their price offerings. But like all things in life, there are trade-offs. That is why I wrote my review. To help people just like you make a well informed decision. Hence, I try to offer another piece to the puzzle. I salute you for doing your homework. Given what you are considering, I doubt you could go wrong either way. The Hsu VTF3 MKIII is the best sub I have owned to date. But, it barely beat the SVS PB12-NSD and my dual Outlaws. One day, however, I hope to own an SVS PB13 Ultra. Now were talking! Good luck in your decision.



Cheers,

Phil

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Pearl, glad I could be of some help. Now to some of your questions:

Yes, the SVS PB12-NSD is that much of a "beast". By that, I mean especially with home theater applications. Not to mention, SVS's legendary customer support. About the best I have ever seen from any company period! Moreover, the PB12-NSD has also been improved musically from what I garner since doing my reviews. That should tell you something about SVS's commitment to being among the elite.

As far as needing (2) subs is a question that SVS can best answer. My room was around 3,000 ft^3 when I did my review. As such, I really needed a second sub. Make no mistake about it, down low the PB12-NSD is at its best AND does so with authority. As others here have already said, I can easily verify that the SVS PB12-NSD will walk all over that Polk sub. In fact, it will do so w/o ever even breaking a sweat so to speak.

In closing, the Outlaw subs have and will continue to perform quite well with the likes of SVS, Hsu, and etc. All offer great subs in their price offerings. But like all things in life, there are trade-offs. That is why I wrote my review. To help people just like you make a well informed decision. Hence, I try to offer another piece to the puzzle. I salute you for doing your homework. Given what you are considering, I doubt you could go wrong either way. The Hsu VTF3 MKIII is the best sub I have owned to date. But, it barely beat the SVS PB12-NSD and my dual Outlaws. One day, however, I hope to own an SVS PB13 Ultra. Now were talking! Good luck in your decision.



Cheers,

Phil

Thanks again, bro.

 

[anamorphic96]

I agree with all the advice you have received in this thread. Anything from SVS, HSU, Outlaw, or ED will absolutely destroy your Polk sub.

HSU's bottom of the line 299.00 - 8" STF-1 will walk all over your Polk. That's how good these companies are at designing subs.

Companies like Polk, Paradigm, PSB, etc have been playing catch up for many years.

One question. What are the dimensions of your room ? Does it open into any other areas. Photos would help.

My pick of the bunch is the VTF-3MKIII. I had suggested the VTF-2 arbitrarily but if your willing to up the budget then by all means get the VTF-3. Both are superb subs.

I'm a HSU man to the bone. Once I heard his subs I was blown away and had never heard bass that clean and extended before. It was jaw dropping in my experience.
I have met Pete Hsu on a couple of occasions at shows and spoke to him via e-mail and phone. HSU's service is second to none.

On a side note. Once you pick your sub your gonna need to tackle set up. To get the best results from any sub you will need to think about placement and EQ options. This is a another can of worms that will need to be tackled in another thread.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Ultra.........

Dawg,

What SVS is this? Looks like a beast...

 

[speakerman39]

Thanks again, bro.

Anytime bro. If you have any other questions for me ask here or just shoot me a PM. Once again, good luck in your decision. Either way, you are going to win given the subs you are considering. BTW, don't be affraid to opt for a B-stock unit. There, you can save some money and still get a top-notch product.



Cheers,

Phil

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I agree with all the advice you have received in this thread. Anything from SVS, HSU, Outlaw, or ED will absolutely destroy your Polk sub.

Thanks Anamorphic; so, you are of the opinion that perhaps all I will need is one sub? My room isn't tremendously big; I will address that specifically below...

HSU's bottom of the line 299.00 - 8" STF-1 will walk all over your Polk. That's how good these companies are at designing subs.

Really?

Companies like Polk, Paradigm, PSB, etc have been playing catch up for many years.

I know Polk sucked in this regard (subs), but I didn't think Paradigm or PSB were that bad...

I am going to get back to you with replies to the rest -- I have some pending work right at the moment.

One question. What are the dimensions of your room ? Does it open into any other areas. Photos would help.

My pick of the bunch is the VTF-3MKIII. I had suggested the VTF-2 arbitrarily but if your willing to up the budget then by all means get the VTF-3. Both are superb subs.

I'm a HSU man to the bone. Once I heard his subs I was blown away and had never heard bass that clean and extended before. It was jaw dropping in my experience.
I have met Pete Hsu on a couple of occasions at shows and spoke to him via e-mail and phone. HSU's service is second to none.

On a side note. Once you pick your sub your gonna need to tackle set up. To get the best results from any sub you will need to think about placement and EQ options. This is a another can of worms that will need to be tackled in another thread.[/QUOTE]

 

[anamorphic96]

I know Polk sucked in this regard (subs), but I didn't think Paradigm or PSB were that bad...

Never said they where bad. They have just been playing catch up. Most of there subs just can't match the low frequency extension and output that the ID brands offer especially at the lower price points. You really have to pay serious money to get that kind of performance from the majors. Even then some there products don't hold up. They have gotten better though. But SVS, HSU, and ED own the ID sub market.

Really?

Yes but the Polk sub you own is not that hard to beat. The HSU STF-1 can get down to 25hz with usable output. The Polk you own starts rolling off at 38hz. HSU subs really are that good in my book. Is it the right sub for what you want to accomplish. No. I was using it as an example of how good HSU's products are for such a small asking price.

so, you are of the opinion that perhaps all I will need is one sub? My room isn't tremendously big;

Having multiple subs will get you 3db more output. Many people use multiple subs to get a more even frequency response.

One sub would probably be fine. But lets not get ahead or ourselves. First off. Get us the dimensions of your room so we can make a more informed suggestion on which subs would work well. Does it open into any other areas ?

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Ultra.........

Oh I see; this is their top of the line, no?

This is probably out of my budget...

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Anytime bro. If you have any other questions for me ask here or just shoot me a PM. Once again, good luck in your decision. Either way, you are going to win given the subs you are considering. BTW, don't be affraid to opt for a B-stock unit. There, you can save some money and still get a top-notch product.



Cheers,

Phil

Thanks Phil!

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Ultra.........

Oh I see; this is their top of the line, no?

This is probably out of my budget...

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Okay let's get back to your post here...

I agree with all the advice you have received in this thread. Anything from SVS, HSU, Outlaw, or ED will absolutely destroy your Polk sub.

Understood.

HSU's bottom of the line 299.00 - 8" STF-1 will walk all over your Polk. That's how good these companies are at designing subs.

Understood.

Companies like Polk, Paradigm, PSB, etc have been playing catch up for many years.

Okay, I didn't mean to say they were "that bad"; I meant I didn't realize they were "that far behind" in sub design...I knew Polk was, though.

One question. What are the dimensions of your room ? Does it open into any other areas. Photos would help.

I will work on getting you the exact dimensions -- yes, the room we're using as a HT isn't dedicated, so it opens into a dining room and then off to that, the kitchen. But there is a decent separation between the living room HT area and the dining area -- it doesn't just "open up" into it, like one big room...there's a kind of "pony wall" with glass in it that separates the sunken-in living room from the dining area. Above the love seat, which puts its back to this pony wall separation, are the in-ceiling SpeakerCraft surrounds.

My pick of the bunch is the VTF-3MKIII. I had suggested the VTF-2 arbitrarily but if your willing to up the budget then by all means get the VTF-3. Both are superb subs.

Wait -- are you talking SVS or HSU here? With so many suggestions, I'm losing track of what we're discussing!

I'm a HSU man to the bone. Once I heard his subs I was blown away and had never heard bass that clean and extended before. It was jaw dropping in my experience.
I have met Pete Hsu on a couple of occasions at shows and spoke to him via e-mail and phone. HSU's service is second to none.

I understand; I think I have narrowed the decision down to HSU or SVS, with maybe Elemental Designs on the back burner...

But let me ask you this: Will the bass from any of these subs deliver that feel-it-in-your-gut, make-the-air-move kind of LFE that seems to suck the air out of a room -- know what I'm talking about?

On a side note. Once you pick your sub your gonna need to tackle set up. To get the best results from any sub you will need to think about placement and EQ options. This is a another can of worms that will need to be tackled in another thread.

Indeed...I realize...

But that actually brings up an interesting issue that I am experiencing now. With my PSW350 in its current location to the left of the left main RTi12 on the system's main wall, I am experiencing EXTREMELY nasty resonance during LFE hits in the wall to the primary listening position's left...some wall decoration my wife picked out above the fireplace there is rattling to a VERY annoying degree, and short of taking it down, I'm wondering what I could do about it...should I look into bass traps? Relocation of the sub?

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Never said they where bad. They have just been playing catch up. Most of there subs just can't match the low frequency extension and output that the ID brands offer especially at the lower price points. You really have to pay serious money to get that kind of performance from the majors. Even then some there products don't hold up. They have gotten better though. But SVS, HSU, and ED own the ID sub market.

ID=Internet Direct?

Yes but the Polk sub you own is not that hard to beat. The HSU STF-1 can get down to 25hz with usable output. The Polk you own starts rolling off at 38hz. HSU subs really are that good in my book. Is it the right sub for what you want to accomplish. No. I was using it as an example of how good HSU's products are for such a small asking price.

Okay.

Having multiple subs will get you 3db more output. Many people use multiple subs to get a more even frequency response.

Okay; before I get into dual subs, perhaps I should concentrate on replacing this PSW350 first...

One sub would probably be fine. But lets not get ahead or ourselves. First off. Get us the dimensions of your room so we can make a more informed suggestion on which subs would work well. Does it open into any other areas ?

Please see my last response regarding this...

 

[anamorphic96]

ID=Internet Direct?

Correct.

Okay; before I get into dual subs, perhaps I should concentrate on replacing this PSW350 first...

I agree. You had mentioned dual subs so I was elaborating on the reasons people sometimes get a second sub. One usually does the trick if chosen correctly.

Wait -- are you talking SVS or HSU here? With so many suggestions, I'm losing track of what we're discussing!

HSU

But let me ask you this: Will the bass from any of these subs deliver that feel-it-in-your-gut, make-the-air-move kind of LFE that seems to suck the air out of a room -- know what I'm talking about?

Yes. When properly set up and calibrated.

But that actually brings up an interesting issue that I am experiencing now. With my PSW350 in its current location to the left of the left main RTi12 on the system's main wall, I am experiencing EXTREMELY nasty resonance during LFE hits in the wall to the primary listening position's left...some wall decoration my wife picked out above the fireplace there is rattling to a VERY annoying degree, and short of taking it down, I'm wondering what I could do about it...should I look into bass traps? Relocation of the sub?

Sounds like a room mode. (A room induced peak in the frequency response.) These are very common. Placement and EQ can get these peaks under control. As far as pictures, windows and other items rttling. Get a subwoofer isolation platform after you get your new sub to eliminate this problem. The below linked item is the most popular and is available in a few different sizes. There is a whole thread here discussing them.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243769-REG/Auralex_GRAMMA_GRAMMA_Sound_Isolation_Riser.html

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Sounds like a room mode. (A room induced peak in the frequency response.) These are very common.

Actually, it sounds to me just to be...well...vibration of a hanging metal item on a wall that's getting nasty vibrations from a sub's bass!

Placement and EQ can get these peaks under control. As far as pictures, windows and other items rttling. Get a subwoofer isolation platform after you get your new sub to eliminate this problem. The below linked item is the most popular and is available in a few different sizes. There is a whole thread here discussing them.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243769-REG/Auralex_GRAMMA_GRAMMA_Sound_Isolation_Riser.html

Thanks; do you think I should just wait until I get the new sub to tackle this? I assume the new sub is going to rattle this item even more intensely...

 

[anamorphic96]

Actually, it sounds to me just to be...well...vibration of a hanging metal item on a wall that's getting nasty vibrations from a sub's bass!



Thanks; do you think I should just wait until I get the new sub to tackle this? I assume the new sub is going to rattle this item even more intensely...

Very well may be the case to some degree. But IMO if you have a nasty peak at a certain frequency it can exaggerate the problem. So removing the peak and isolating the sub will get rid of or drastically reduce the problem.

My room had a 16db peak at 47hz which drove me nuts with rattles and bloated poorly defined bass. I applied the Velodyne EQ and isolation and the problem disappeared almost entirely. Wood floors with space underneath don't help.

I would wait and buy the platform after your sub is chosen. You might waste money and get one that's to small or large.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Thank you.

Is there anything I can do at the moment about the PSW350 rattling the walls? Should I try relocating the sub?

 

[KEW]

Thank you.

Is there anything I can do at the moment about the PSW350 rattling the walls? Should I try relocating the sub?

As a start - Try lifting it off of the floor and see if the rattle is still there. If not, you can try putting something like and old sofa cushion or a heavy blanket or rug folded under the sub as a temporary measure.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

As a start - Try lifting it off of the floor and see if the rattle is still there. If not, you can try putting something like and old sofa cushion or a heavy blanket or rug folded under the sub as a temporary measure.

Thanks KEW -- will this potentially stop the rattling of the item on the wall in question?

 

[KEW]

Thanks KEW -- will this potentially stop the rattling of the item on the wall in question?

I can't say it will or won't, but it is an easy and obvious test to find out.

The idea is to uncouple the sub from the floor to determine if your rattle is from mechanical vibration from the sub to the floor to the wall, or if it is from the airwaves (okay, airwaves are mechanical as well, but you get the idea).

 

[anamorphic96]

Thank you.

Is there anything I can do at the moment about the PSW350 rattling the walls? Should I try relocating the sub?

I use bricks right now and they work pretty well.