Advice on using Digm 100s with no Sub

[drinke]

Currently I have studio 40s paired with a SVS cylinder sub. Its a fine set-up, but I think I've reached a point in my life where a giant damn sub just doesn't make a lot of sense. Aesthetic options for subs just seem really limited, with some (expensive) exceptions of course - at the end of the day, its a big heavy box (or cylinder). In addition, my listening habits have really changed. Three or four years ago when I first started buying equipment I was all about HT (ie, 70-80% HT use). Now, its probably 80 or 90% music.

So, I already ditched the centers. And I am really having a hard time justifying a sub I have. I can find the space for one or maybe even two small more "musical" subs, but at the end of the day, my wife will hate the look of it.

Here's what I was thinking - sell the sub and don't replace it. Move the 40s to the bedroom, and get a pair of 100s (was thinking v4 - and everything else in my system is paradigm).

But before I head down this path I was wondering what peoples real world experiences are with the low end of the 100s. I don't listen to organ music, but I do still watch some movies (say 20%). I think paradigm lists the low end of the 100s in the mid 20s. Is that realistic?

In other words, what I am asking is will the 100s dig low enough and loud enough so that I won't really miss a sub for the 20% of the time I actually watch movies?

I've been pretty loyal to paradigm - but I suppose I'd be willing to hear other options (would like to stay in the 2k range - new or used).

Thanks -

 

[Seth=L]

You're right about the extension on Studio 100s. My v.1 towers satisfy for both movies and music. The newer designs have less cabinet volume, but they have updated drivers, crossovers, and port tuning to get similar results. I would imagine they'd be fine on their own. It won't shake the room like an SVS, but you couldn't logically expect that.

I'd urge you to look at Vandersteen with your budget as well. The Vandersteen 2Ce and 2Ce Signature get near subsonic. They have a different look about them, and that leads me to believe they won't win any awards with the wife. That's what Vandersteen sacrifices for great performance.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Studio 100s though.

 

[mannoiaj]

I think that you'd be missing a bit with movies using just the digms, possibly a bit with music as well. You may just consider getting rid of the beast of a sub and downgrading to a smaller sealed sub. Also, you could feasibly get a pair of mains that had some type of built in powered woofer system (definitive technology stands out).

 

[Seth=L]

I think that you'd be missing a bit with movies using just the digms, possibly a bit with music as well. You may just consider getting rid of the beast of a sub and downgrading to a smaller sealed sub. Also, you could feasibly get a pair of mains that had some type of built in powered woofer system (definitive technology stands out).

For music? Not really. Movies, sure, but he's made it clear that movies are not his priority. For simplicity sake, and the WAF, the Studio 100s should be fine.

The most important factor here is that he can try the Studio 100s with and without the subwoofer he currently has. In reality, he is the final judge on what he can live with, what he can't.

 

[cornelius]

With the cohesiveness and quality of bass of the 100s, you'll forget all about a sub, even with movies. With a 2K range, definitely have some fun and check out some other speakers - you may end up with the 'digms, but take the opportunity...

Def Vandy's are worth checking out - if you can, try the new Magnepan 1.7s, Dynaudio,... lots of nice options in that price range.

 

[drinke]

Thanks gents - I'll look at some of the suggestions. It seems there is a lack of v4s out there, and with the new MSRP on the v5s, I think I need to be open to new experiences.

If I had the room, I'd probably expand to two good subs for movies, but in a separate room. As it stands, space is just limited, my viewing/listening area is not the same HT set-up I had a few months ago (ie, a separate room).

 

[mannoiaj]

Once you have that theater sub for movies, you'll just be disappointed without it. The paradigms are simply not up to the task for movies, and would also sound better blended with a nice sub for music.

 

[ggsantafe]

I have a pair of Studio 40's (v.3) and run small (approx. 13 1/2" cubes) dual subs (Sunfire HRS 12) that each fit below the 40's and produce outstanding bass (crossovers set at 80db) for music & movies. There are a number of other "small" sub options from SVS, Outlaw, etc that will also do the trick. From a WAF perspective - you may want to rough out the dimensions of the 100's to see if they are visually acceptable - otherwise the small sub option may work since they will occupy the same space you are currently using for your 40's & stands

 

[drinke]

Ok - so in the mode of being flexible (and also with the knowledge that I may have to take on the missus and convince her that the performance is worth more than the aesthetics), maybe I shouldn't give up so easily - though I am still kind of biased towards an excellent set of fronts, and dropping the sub.

Let me really explain the lay-out. I've got 3 places for a sub. Place 1 is where the SVS is - behind a chair in a corner - which I don't like because is feel its kind of muffled. The other two places are on the left and right of the entertainment center. Now if I could place the studio 40s (which are on stands) either on TOP of the subs (which would look dumb and I'm not sure its a good idea anway) I would have room for two decent sized subs.

That'd probably not an option - so I have to put the subs next to the stands. This would leave me with about 16 inches for width - 20 for height and 20 or so for depth on BOTH sides. I realize that I could go with one sub and save the space - but I think symmetry will probably help my case.

In my searches frankly the only subs that would arguably work is the mid-size HSU VTF2-3 (or whatever the step down from the 3-3 is) - its has a good reputation, is reasonably priced, the size is close (but maybe a bit too big) and has an acceptable finish option.

I realize this post is probably morphing into a subwoofer post, but I'd be interested in hearing other thoughts - what other high-performing, reasonably priced, smaller/mid size, subs with pleasing finish options should I be thinking about? An acceptable price per sub is 700-800 shipped.

 

[mannoiaj]

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/f12se.html

A couple of these would be nice for 2 channel and HT imo coupled with your already in possession digms.

For sound quality, a pair of these should sound alot better then your svs cylinder and have higher waf. Even a single would do the trick imo, if it's too tough to integrate a pair into your space.

 

[Warpdrv]

I agree with others here dual subs up front would be a good way to go, you got pretty darn good mains, but certainly IMO would benefit from a pair of subs if blended properly.....

Did you mention room size... ?

If your handy have someone willing to help you in a project, you could build your own sealed subs that could be out of the world and compete well with very high priced commercial brands out there.

 

[mannoiaj]

I agree with others here dual subs up front would be a good way to go, you got pretty darn good mains, but certainly IMO would benefit from a pair of subs if blended properly.....

Did you mention room size... ?

If your handy have someone willing to help you in a project, you could build your own sealed subs that could be out of the world and compete well with very high priced commercial brands out there.

I agree with warp in that if you can build your own you could really maximize the dollar here. Considering the fact the WAF is of high importance, I'd assume that an aftermarket sub would be the way to go unless you have the time and ability to build a nice looking sub. I'm of the opinion that spending $2k on paradigm 100's wouldn't be the best option to get high quality sound and still hit the WAF mark. Thats good hard earned money and you should explore some options imo.

 

[drinke]

Guys - current room size is hard to determine - multiple room all sort of mesh together - roughly I'd say 25x20x8 = about 4000cu/ft - give or take, and its short-term (relocated by company short-term). Of course, when I return home, I plan sell home and buy something with more room (growing family).

And you are right - building a sub is just not possible right now. But I have to say, those ascend subs are pretty sexy. I actually think the size and aesthetics of these might just work. That said, the down-firing 15 looks like it might have exactly what I am looking for - will double nicely as a table - I bet my wife won't even know what it is! But either the 12 or 15 looks nice - I may start with 1 for now and add a second.

But the question I have is whether front v. downfiring migh be better for my intended use (ie largely music). My understanding is that there's not much difference. I own both actually - I lean slightly in favor of front firing, but the look of the 15 has me interested.

I also love the 40s - I actually have two pairs - they are great, too bad they don't sell them anymore. I don't think I'll ever part with them.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

The 40's are awesome.

The 100's need a sub.

I like the dual sub idea.

Warp is gay.

Front or down firing doesn't matter.

 

[Alex2507]

Here's what I was thinking - sell the sub and don't replace it.

Try not using it before you ditch it.
I have never once heard of somebody going to a
lesser sub and liking it never mind going to no sub.

 

[AJinFLA]

And you are right - building a sub is just not possible right now.

There are different types of "builds". Often, what is referred, is a start from scratch, sawdust flying DIY, cut the wood, etc. type deal. Many shy away from these (not me )
Then there are "kits", which are basically hold a cordless screwdriver in your hand and press the button. Whole thing done in <30 minutes.
Something like the Daytons offer excellent value.
Sealed (which is less likely to boom/drone in most rooms due to the shape of the LF roll off) for music, but certainly capable of HT due to the large driver/displacement. Relatively small cabinet, which if you are creative, can often be disguised to match your room decor.

I may start with 1 for now and add a second.

Multiple (smaller if you wish) subs will yield smoother response than a single large sub. EQ can tame peaks, but cannot fill in notches.

But the question I have is whether front v. downfiring migh be better for my intended use (ie largely music). My understanding is that there's not much difference. I own both actually - I lean slightly in favor of front firing, but the look of the 15 has me interested.

It can make a difference, but shouldn't under normal circumstances - i.e, used as a "sub" <60hz, not over driving the motor to where it generates audible distortion, etc, etc.

cheers,

AJ

btw, as far as mains go, it's best to audition as many as you can. There are lots of choices at that price level.

 

[drinke]

Years ago I looked at DIY - kits and otherwise. I think for me (ie, my wife) it basically comes down to fit and finish. I don't think I can pull off the kind of quality I probably need.

Well, since this has officially become a subwoofer discussion, I think I may just post a quick thread over there re: fit and finish on the ascends (people say good things performance-wise).

Thanks again all -

 

[Warpdrv]

The 40's are awesome.

The 100's need a sub.

I like the dual sub idea.

Warp is gay.

Front or down firing doesn't matter.

I agree with everything here, except the Warp is Gay part


Kit
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products2.html

Boxes
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=535

 

[Warpdrv]

Years ago I looked at DIY - kits and otherwise. I think for me (ie, my wife) it basically comes down to fit and finish. I don't think I can pull off the kind of quality I probably need.

Well, since this has officially become a subwoofer discussion, I think I may just post a quick thread over there re: fit and finish on the ascends (people say good things performance-wise).

Thanks again all -

The fit and finish is absolutely perfect on the Ascend, which are actually Rythmik subs, you can see them in my last post if you search around... very very good quality subs....

 

[AJinFLA]

Years ago I looked at DIY - kits and otherwise. I think for me (ie, my wife) it basically comes down to fit and finish. I don't think I can pull off the kind of quality I probably need.

There is nothing to "fit and finish" on those kits. The driver/amp holes are pre-cut, screw holes drilled. It would be the opposite of you removing the driver and amp on your (current) pre-built sub...or the same as putting them back in.