IR Systems ??

[AVRat]

1. Instead of using IR flasher/emitters to a unit’s IR sensor, is it possible to go directly from the connecting block (Niles/Xantech) to a unit’s (receiver, media server, TV) remote/IR input? Their manuals/on-line info doesn’t help.

2. Looking at this kit for access to a blocked sensor on TV by center speaker, any other options? http://www.amazon.com/XANTECH-29110DBKit-Designer-Hidden-Infrared/dp/B001QT9AOG/ref=rsl_mainw_dpl?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I go directly into my AVR's IR input with the Niles stuff.

1. Instead of using IR flasher/emitters to a unit’s IR sensor, is it possible to go directly from the connecting block (Niles/Xantech) to a unit’s (receiver, media server, TV) remote/IR input? Their manuals/on-line info doesn’t help.

2. Looking at this kit for access to a blocked sensor on TV by center speaker, any other options? http://www.amazon.com/XANTECH-29110DBKit-Designer-Hidden-Infrared/dp/B001QT9AOG/ref=rsl_mainw_dpl?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[jostenmeat]

I'm curious what you find out Rat. I'm pretty sure I tried using the IR plugged input on a component or two, and I didn't have success. I don't know why. Flashers work just fine though. So, I thought maybe the signal must be trasmitted/coded differently, or something, but then I haven't found anything that specifically says that. Lemme know what you find out!

FWIW, my brother has a couple of displays, one of which is a Sammy DLP, with the worst place ever for IR sensor, smack dab in the middle of the large bezel. (It also doubles as large power button). I guess it does make it look a bit more streamlined, but c'mon . . . I ran an emitter around the neck/bezel of the TV, and it works perfectly.

You might* have to be logged in to see these results, but here are some search results:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=15422834

I see Dawg has replied. I wish I could just use input plugs rather than flashers . . . . hmmm . . . .

 

[adk highlander]

1. Instead of using IR flasher/emitters to a unit’s IR sensor, is it possible to go directly from the connecting block (Niles/Xantech) to a unit’s (receiver, media server, TV) remote/IR input? Their manuals/on-line info doesn’t help.

In most cases yes. There are a couple of things to look at to make sure. One is some inputs say "control" and not "IR" and these may be proprietary for that particular brand (Onkyo had RI). The other bigger issue would be if the IR input does not use the same pin configuration as a standard emitter. My Oppo 83 is a good example. They use a special cable that is a mono 3.5mm on one end and a stereo pin at the other to match their configuration.

2. Looking at this kit for access to a blocked sensor on TV by center speaker, any other options? http://www.amazon.com/XANTECH-29110DBKit-Designer-Hidden-Infrared/dp/B001QT9AOG/ref=rsl_mainw_dpl?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

What are you using for a remote? Do you have any possible RF options?

 

[jostenmeat]

In most cases yes. There are a couple of things to look at to make sure. One is some inputs say "control" and not "IR" and these may be proprietary for that particular brand (Onkyo had RI). The other bigger issue would be if the IR input does not use the same pin configuration as a standard emitter. My Oppo 83 is a good example. They use a special cable that is a mono 3.5mm on one end and a stereo pin at the other to match their configuration.

adk, so "control" usually means proprietary? If so, and RI included, what must be done? Do I have to buy over-priced proprietary base-stations? Like a base station for every proprietary input I have? That would be soooo lame! I wonder how much they cost, too. Thanks.

 

[adk highlander]

adk, so "control" usually means proprietary? If so, and RI included, what must be done? Do I have to buy over-priced proprietary base-stations? Like a base station for every proprietary input I have? That would be soooo lame! I wonder how much they cost, too. Thanks.

I have not seen or heard of a way to use the proprietary inputs with a standard IR distribution system. There area range of control system from something as simple as a IR distribution block to a programmable master system like my MSC-400.

With most gear you have three choices of non-line of site control. IR distribution, IP or RS-232 (or some comination). I know your Onkyo receiver has an IR input and also has outputs that will distribute to flashers. The trick is that it will only distribute what it receives via the IR in. So you cannot use the IR receiver on the front of the receiver to send signals out the IR outputs. Your receiver also has an RS-232 which is bullet proof for control but puts you into some fairly expensive gear plus programming to get that far.

I've also found some gear with USB ports can be controlled via a USB/RS-232 adaptor and move away from IR control. Directv boxes are notoriously bad with flashers and going to RS-232 in some ways has made for a happier marriage.

As far as cost the IR control blocks and flasher system can be done for $100-200 bucks depending on how many IR receivers (multizone) and outputs you want.

Next would be a RF base station. This would need a matching remote and base station. Cost can range from $150-$500 depending on the remote. The remote will need programming but the RF base station just passes IR to each piece of gear.

To go to a control system is way more money because you have to get remotes and a control system. Remotes can range from $150-800 bucks each and the programmable main system unit is at least $250(ebay) to $700 retail. Then you also need to program the system which is a whole separate cost of either your time or a pro. Huge advantages for multizone control and RS-232 etc but very pricey.

Edit: Sorry Josten after writing all this I didn't actually answer your question. The control inputs/outputs like RI allow same brand gear to work with one remote and will not need programming. I used to have JVC gear years ago and I could use the receiver remote to control the CD player and Tape deck even though they did not have any kind of IR control.

 

[MDS]

Onkyo's RI (Remote Interactive) works as adk highlander described but offers additional convenience features such as:

1. Turn on the DVD player and the receiver will automatically turn on and select the DVD input.

2. Turn off the DVD player and the reciever will automatically turn off too.

3. Dim any of the components connected by RI and they will all dim.

The newer receivers offer the same thing over HDMI and is an implementation of the HDMI CEC controls.

I used to use RI, mainly for the auto-turn-on/off feature, but find it easier to just program that sequence with a macro on my remote and I don't bother with RI anymore.

 

[AVRat]

Thanx guys, I’m actually in the planning process for a bit of an upgrade. The new system components are looking to be:

Mitsubishi LaserVue L75-A91
Denon AVR-4810
Oppo BDP-83
Velodyne SMS-1
Power Management (Panamax/APC)?
StudioTech U-22t EC

I really need to streamline things due to my degenerative disability and my family’s technophobia. I currently have 3 sensors on my main floor where I listen in stereo and my gear (HT setup) is in the basement.

I go directly into my AVR's IR input with the Niles stuff.

That’s good to know since you’re using the Denon 380#. Am I correct in assuming you’re using the ”Remote” input?

I'm curious what you find out Rat. I'm pretty sure I tried using the IR plugged input on a component or two, and I didn't have success. I don't know why. Flashers work just fine though. So, I thought maybe the signal must be trasmitted/coded differently, or something, but then I haven't found anything that specifically says that. Lemme know what you find out!

FWIW, my brother has a couple of displays, one of which is a Sammy DLP, with the worst place ever for IR sensor, smack dab in the middle of the large bezel. (It also doubles as large power button). I guess it does make it look a bit more streamlined, but c'mon . . . I ran an emitter around the neck/bezel of the TV, and it works perfectly.

Yeah, I talked to my local sound shop and they also said it may be hit or miss depending on the equipment. I am also currently using a flasher on my Fireball since I had it for my old Sony CD MC/Kenwood DVD MCs. I was hoping to be able to clean things up by using the rear inputs. I may also need to upgrade my current connecting block to incorporate another sensor, need to figure out which model was intalled. I really need to figure out how I want it all to work together. The sensor on the Laser seems to be toward the bottom center of the base.

In most cases yes. There are a couple of things to look at to make sure. One is some inputs say "control" and not "IR" and these may be proprietary for that particular brand (Onkyo had RI). The other bigger issue would be if the IR input does not use the same pin configuration as a standard emitter. My Oppo 83 is a good example. They use a special cable that is a mono 3.5mm on one end and a stereo pin at the other to match their configuration.

What are you using for a remote? Do you have any possible RF options?

Glad you mentioned the pin configuration because the Oppo is different than what my Fireball manual shows. What is the standard configuration?

I’ll also look into a URC perhaps with RF capability since my current Denon 5800 remote is such but never delved into its more advanced operability. Your setup is nice but a little more than I need, I think.

 

[krzywica]

I use this kit and I don't use any flashers as all my components have 1/8th" inputs and work perfectly with no lag whatsoever.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&q=ir+repeater&cid=5748396793730573182&ei=cWoOTI_hHZTwM_a-vN0D&sa=title&ved=0CCcQ8wIwBjgA#p

 

[AVRat]

Thanx Wica, I'd seen that kit and the price and wasn't sure how well it worked.

 

[krzywica]

Thanx Wica, I'd seen that kit and the price and wasn't sure how well it worked.

Yup the SMS-1 and the 4810 both have discrete IR inputs so you should be good to go!

 

[AVRat]

Still working on getting things figured out. In general, does it matter if mono or stereo plugs are used, because the mono cables seem hard to find? Or are we back to maybe it'll work?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I'm not sure, I used mono-plugs. They have them in stock at my local Rat Shack.

Still working on getting things figured out. In general, does it matter if mono or stereo plugs are used, because the mono cables seem hard to find? Or are we back to maybe it'll work?

 

[jostenmeat]

Still working on getting things figured out. In general, does it matter if mono or stereo plugs are used, because the mono cables seem hard to find? Or are we back to maybe it'll work?

Oh gee, I forget, but I think we might be back to "maybe it'll work". I really don't remember if there was some case or design that didn't allow it, but OTOH I don't ever remember reading about someone using a stereo plug that didn't trigger properly. I've only used stereo plugs (when I was actually using triggers a long time ago), and it worked perfectly fine. My local rat shack didn't have any mono in stock when I bought them.

 

[highfigh]

I'm curious what you find out Rat. I'm pretty sure I tried using the IR plugged input on a component or two, and I didn't have success. I don't know why. Flashers work just fine though. So, I thought maybe the signal must be trasmitted/coded differently, or something, but then I haven't found anything that specifically says that. Lemme know what you find out!

FWIW, my brother has a couple of displays, one of which is a Sammy DLP, with the worst place ever for IR sensor, smack dab in the middle of the large bezel. (It also doubles as large power button). I guess it does make it look a bit more streamlined, but c'mon . . . I ran an emitter around the neck/bezel of the TV, and it works perfectly.

You might* have to be logged in to see these results, but here are some search results:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=15422834

I see Dawg has replied. I wish I could just use input plugs rather than flashers . . . . hmmm . . . .

The Samsung bezel can be removed and the emitter placed inside. I have done it. Be careful with the bezel- the fasterners are kind of cheesy, er, fragile.

The IR jack on the back of some equipment works as a pass-through to go to the distribution, not as an input. Rack mount devices may have a direct input, like a few receivers, ReQuest servers, etc. I wish EVERYTHING had a direct input.

Make sure the emitters and cables have the same configuration, i.e., stereo vs mono plug. Some mono jacks have the ground prong where the ring is located and some have it where the sleeve is located. That way, the sleeve and ring may be where the connections are made and that won't work. Use mono 3.5mm plugs and if the emitters use a third connection for status, get another kind. Niles (which IS THE SAME AS Zantec), Jamo and many others are exactly the same but HA and some others are different.

Nice standardization, eh?

 

[highfigh]

Still working on getting things figured out. In general, does it matter if mono or stereo plugs are used, because the mono cables seem hard to find? Or are we back to maybe it'll work?

Radio Shack has mono cables and plugs (if you want to make your own, but there's not much reason to). Parts Express and most other online sellers do, too.

 

[krzywica]

I have both stereo and mono cables plugged in and they work just fine....I do seem to get random flicker from the confirmation LED from time to time though....that would be my only complaint about the system as it really does work flawlessly from 25 feet away and I'm sure even more but thats as long as my room is.

 

[AVRat]

Finally getting things together! Thanks folks for all your input. I ended up upgrading the previously installed Xantech block (1/4) to a Niles MSU-480 (4/8), added a Niles TS-110 Table Top Sensor, and using stereo mini-plugs. So far it’s working great!