Not even General's can speak their mind

Nemo128

Nemo128

Audioholic Field Marshall
Should he be canned? Absolutely not.

Should he have offered such opinions publically? I work for the military, and I work with many soldiers of two branches. No uniformed officer should make their opinions against the CIC public. Period. It's even part of the military code of justice, and it's punishable by court martial.

Whatever your political opinions, uniformed officers are bound by the code and he has to answer for his words.

I absolutely and strongly believe he should NOT be reprimanded in a way that costs him his position or military career, but I do believe he should be held accountable somehow for his violation.

Something for everyone to keep in mind: Signing one's life over to military service means they don't get to enjoy many of the freedoms they fight and die for. One of those is the freedom of speech.
 
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Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
Should he be canned? Absolutely not.

Should he have offered such opinions publically? I work for the military, and I work with many soldiers of two branches. No uniformed officer should make their opinions against the CIC public. Period. It's even part of the military code of justice, and it's punishable by court martial.

Whatever your political opinions, uniformed officers are bound by the code and he has to answer for his words.

I absolutely and strongly believe he should NOT be reprimanded in a way that costs him his position or military career, but I do believe he should be held accountable somehow for his violation.

Something for everyone to keep in mind: Signing one's life over to military service means they don't get to enjoy many of the freedoms they fight and die for. One of those is the freedom of speech.
I understand what you mean...there are a few professions out there where your conduct outside of work can get you in trouble and even canned. I don't know how they would punish him... I guess he could peel some potatoes for a week in the defac ;) what would you think if the punishment were...200 pushups :D

what do you think should happen to him?
 
krzywica

krzywica

Audioholic Samurai
Should he be canned? Absolutely not.

Should he have offered such opinions publically? I work for the military, and I work with many soldiers of two branches. No uniformed officer should make their opinions against the CIC public. Period. It's even part of the military code of justice, and it's punishable by court martial.

Whatever your political opinions, uniformed officers are bound by the code and he has to answer for his words.

I absolutely and strongly believe he should NOT be reprimanded in a way that costs him his position or military career, but I do believe he should be held accountable somehow for his violation.

Something for everyone to keep in mind: Signing one's life over to military service means they don't get to enjoy many of the freedoms they fight and die for. One of those is the freedom of speech.
Exactly what he said x10.
I understand what you mean...there are a few professions out there where your conduct outside of work can get you in trouble and even canned. I don't know how they would punish him... I guess he could peel some potatoes for a week in the defac ;) what would you think if the punishment were...200 pushups :D

what do you think should happen to him?
It really is impossible to comprehend unless you have been in the military and served an active term or a long term deployment.....they literally own you and you have to abide by every little thread of print they have painstakingly crafted over the years.

Should he be punished for his actions? Yes, you can't have the top dawg pulling crap like this and expect your troops to abide by the same rules that get walked on by the higher ups. Everyone knows Obama is a douchebag when it comes to any type of military endeavor, we don't need a general to spell it out for us.
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
Well thats a big surprise,Generals should stick to the program..........
 
Nemo128

Nemo128

Audioholic Field Marshall
what would you think if the punishment were...200 pushups :D

what do you think should happen to him?
I think 500 should suffice. :D

Here's the thing. Regardless of what happens to him, nothing good can come of this. The situation has detrimental ramifications to both our efforts there and the perception of those efforts back home either way. This will simply serve as another point of divisive focus for the public, and it will make the jobs of our soldiers just a lil more difficult to perform.

Regardless of my political beliefs, my loyalty is to the guy or gal in the field that needs my best efforts on offensive or defensive materiel.

Well thats a big surprise,Generals should stick to the program..........
Gunney in Full Metal Jacket said it best: "Your soul belongs to God, your @$$ belongs to the corps!" It's really that simple. UCMJ makes a uniformed soldier property of the US govt even out of unis, and ESPECIALLY so on active deployment. A piece of equipment. A weapon. A shield. As horrific or sad as some people may find that, it's the simple blunt truth. It's a reality I think about every day.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
I see an early retirement after maybe a brief reassignment. Then he'll write a book and hit the talk shows and give speeches.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Members of the military have to be extremely circumspect about what they say to the media. If anyone serving under McChrystal said critical things about him to the media, what do you think would happen? The more senior the officer, the greater the example he has to set for the troops. The consequences of any infraction have to be more severe as you go up in rank as well.

I don't know what McChrystal said, but regardless of how accurate the comments were, he must've stepped out of bounds and it can't be brushed aside.

The senior Canadian officer there was recently fined $3500 because he accidentally discharged his firearm. Oh, and then he was fired and sent home because it was just revealled that he was having an affair with one of his staff.....
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
The senior Canadian officer there was recently fined $3500 because he accidentally discharged his firearm. Oh, and then he was fired and sent home because it was just revealled that he was having an affair with one of his staff.....
Well you know what they say, "Thy rod and thy staff comfort me."
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
I'll assume two things:
1) He's the best man for the job.
2) He does gueninely to profressionally persue the course set by the civilian authority

If those are true, I think that Obama and he should sit down.

Obama should come out repeating that he's the best man for the job, and I actually think the message he should focus on is how these comments have helped him form a better working relationship. He should entirely avoid publicly criticizing the general. The net view should be "when faced with criticism, Obama was focused on understanding why the criticism existed and how he could change the situation to address the underlying concerns".

McCrystal should come out apologizing for the off remarks, saying they were inappropriate and unprofessional and more: that they are no longer true. The Obama has righted or clarified whatever caused the issue in the first place and that he completely supports the administration.

I think, strongly, that would have the best outcome for all parties involved. Obama comes out as non-petty and capable of improving, and McCrystal comes out with the minimum of loss-of-face.

Of course: it wouldn't hurt if it were true as well.
 
M

MatthewB.

Audioholic General
No matter what his beliefs, the President is still " The Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces" and any member of the military knows you may question the orders your given, but you will follow those orders and do as he/she commands. And calling any ranking officer any names is grounds for dismissal and dishonorable discharge.

McChrystal will most likely be given the option of retiring for the service he already has given his country.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
No matter what his beliefs, the President is still " The Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces" and any member of the military knows you may question the orders your given, but you will follow those orders and do as he/she commands. And calling any ranking officer any names is grounds for dismissal and dishonorable discharge.

McChrystal will most likely be given the option of retiring for the service he already has given his country.
And might I add, you do not question your orders or the competence of your boss in a public forum. Your only justification for disobeying an order is if it was illegal. If you go that route - boy, you had better have your ducks in a row...:eek:
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Speaking your mind is one thing, but violating code is quite another. Hell, if I called my boss an idiot, I sure wouldn't expect a promotion. Relieving the general might be a bit harsh, but punishment is warranted.
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
I think he should get canned. Agree or not with the CNC, he's the boss and the general is a sworn officer of the US military that is required to keep his damn mouth shut.

There are those times when a general needs to "fall on his sword" and make his disagreement public just to get the polititians moving on an issue. But he needs to be prepared to garner his resignation. I don't think this was the case in this instance.
 
Nemo128

Nemo128

Audioholic Field Marshall
Obama should come out repeating that he's the best man for the job, and I actually think the message he should focus on is how these comments have helped him form a better working relationship. He should entirely avoid publicly criticizing the general. The net view should be "when faced with criticism, Obama was focused on understanding why the criticism existed and how he could change the situation to address the underlying concerns".

McCrystal should come out apologizing for the off remarks, saying they were inappropriate and unprofessional and more: that they are no longer true. The Obama has righted or clarified whatever caused the issue in the first place and that he completely supports the administration.

I think, strongly, that would have the best outcome for all parties involved. Obama comes out as non-petty and capable of improving, and McCrystal comes out with the minimum of loss-of-face.
Generally I agree with you. The problem I mentioned still exists though. There will be some group unhappy with such an outcome. The simple consideration now is damage control. They can only figure out how to piss off the least amount of people possible. Many a good military member will be highly angered by McCrystal being able to keep his job, on top of civilians. It's a hard issue to deal with, even if it's an issue that's clear-cut and easy to understand.

McChrystal will most likely be given the option of retiring for the service he already has given his country.
I genuinely believe that is the outcome. I personally would be furious if his service and accomplishments for us are trumped by this.

Your only justification for disobeying an order is if it was illegal. If you go that route - boy, you had better have your ducks in a row...:eek:
Couldn't agree more, as long as it's a matter of the letter of the law with no question of morality and ethics raised.

I think he should get canned. Agree or not with the CNC, he's the boss and the general is a sworn officer of the US military that is required to keep his damn mouth shut.

There are those times when a general needs to "fall on his sword" and make his disagreement public just to get the polititians moving on an issue. But he needs to be prepared to garner his resignation. I don't think this was the case in this instance.
I'm with ya, I just think of it from the logical standpoint as the loss of a strong figurehead in this war going on. You bring up exactly the state of mind I pointed to with regards to Jerry's post. Anyone wearing the uniform, and strongly bound to the UCMJ, would be furious if he is allowed to keep his position. I totally agree, but if we start to dig deeper, this whole thing has serious political and foreign relations implications that aren't even being thought about yet by the average civi.

In general, no good can come of this. All they can do is figure out how to minimize the damage.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Generally I agree with you. The problem I mentioned still exists though. There will be some group unhappy with such an outcome. The simple consideration now is damage control. They can only figure out how to piss off the least amount of people possible. Many a good military member will be highly angered by McCrystal being able to keep his job, on top of civilians. It's a hard issue to deal with, even if it's an issue that's clear-cut and easy to understand.
I think the first, and really so important that all others don't matter, question is "which choice will best protect American lives, innocent Afghani lives, and gives the best chance of attaining our goals in Afghanistan.

Anything else is ego.

It looks like he's been releived of his command. I don't know if that was or was not the right choice.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I think it goes beyond what the general said. (I agree all involved should keep their mouths shut in public or get the axe)

The question that begs to be asked is, "Why weren't the General & the Prez on the same page?"
I'm more un-comfortable knowing that normally this kind of discord between the White House and Military is swept under the rug and kept from the public.

The General's public relations officer is really incompetent; what did he expect from Rolling Stone Magazine?
 
kickerofelves

kickerofelves

Enthusiast
Looks like his boss is replacing him (Petraeus). Considering Petraeus is the guru of modern U.S. counter-insurgency strategy--he and Mattis of the USMC oversaw the new field manual on it--and his work in Iraq he's about as good as we could hope for.

McChrystal's media guy was nuts to allow a RS reporter in without giving him certain agreed upon guidelines (such as not to attribute quotes, keep certain things off the record, etc).
 

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