Real? Fake? What?

[GirgleMirt]

(bullets hitting stuff, aka animals)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYigC49tnh8&feature=related

Is this a real bullet/ad or is this a joke? I laughed because it looked fake, and I was under the impression that fragmentation bullets were outlawed which tended to the "this is so fake it's funny" (I thought the 1st gopher was a tiger...), but I'm not quite sure now if it's fake or real...

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/varmint-grenade/

Gawd... It's real... And legal...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet

Legality
40 S&W round, complete cartridge and expanded bullet

The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibits the use in warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body.[3] This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams, as well as weapons designed to aggravate injured soldiers or make their death inevitable. NATO members do not use small arms ammunition that is prohibited by the Hague Convention.

Despite the ban on military use, hollow-point bullets are one of the most common types of civilian and police ammunition, due largely to the reduced risk of bystanders being hit by over-penetrating or ricocheted bullets, and the increased speed of incapacitation. In many jurisdictions, even ones such as the United Kingdom, where expanding ammunition is generally prohibited, it is illegal to hunt certain types of game with ammunition that does not expand.[4][5] Some target ranges forbid full metal jacket ammunition, due to its greater tendency to damage metal targets and backstops.[6]

Ghastly that it's prohibited for military use yet: "hollow-point bullets are one of the most common types of civilian and police ammunition,"

 

[dkane360]

Im all for the second amendment, but its pretty scary what people can buy. Is it really necessary to be able to buy .50 cal armor piercing incendiary rounds?

And if im not mistaken, hollow points have an legitimate use. They expand on impact to prevent the bullet from continuing through the target. Police use it to minimize over-penetrating which is important in a situation with bystanders.

EDIT- now I see that you quoted something that says almost the same thing I said lol. And the gopher or whatever that they shot looked fake when I watched it, but I don't want to watch it again to be sure lol.

 

[GirgleMirt]

In some shots you have them going up as rockets... Sure looked fake, but I don't think it is...

The thing is, with regular bullets, a bullet could penetrate your skin, muscle, and then exit with minimal damage. That is, a lot energy in the bullet will not be transferred to the target. Wounds are usually relatively small in this case, unless it hits a bone or something...

Fragmentation bullets, well, fragments and does a LOT more tissue damage, as it also breaks up, more of the energy gets absorbed in the body, but as it does, it does a lot more damage... I was under the impression that these types of bullets were not legal, hell, if armies can't use them because it causes to much pain and too grave injuries, I was under the impression that these bullets could not be purchased anywhere and would not be used by law enforcement agencies and the such... I feel so much safer now that I know that they are...

And that video, this add, was so... Bad... That I was under the assumption that it was comedy. That it was a parody. That it was made to actually ridicule gun/bullet company adds, and the intended audience. Turns out, it looks like it's a real, serious, add... That's just damn sad...

Here's a good vid explaining hollow point bullets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8XcVc_0ykU ooops, I meant this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaXcXVvRuJ8

 

[GirgleMirt]

valuable bobcat and beaver pelts are virtually undamaged.

What the hell is this, 1800? Who's the targeted consumer base, Davy Crockett?

We're in 2010... I don't know, sounds satirical to an urban living going guy who works in an office from 9-5 monday to friday and never had to hunt for his meal...


And on a somewhat unrelated note, amazing how matter react at high speeds or extreme conditions... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg&feature=related More 'miraculous' or amazing than any made up silliness...

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Exploding bullets maybe a tad too much, however did you ever tried venison jerky ?? It's delicious - I work in office 8 to 6 mon-fri, but one of the guys actually lives in middleofnowere, pa and during hunting season (winter) is able to kill deer or two. He brings them to guy who does meat smoking for him and brings final result to the office - Yammi !!!

Deers are not Bambi - they overpopulate most areas and eat everything, just like rats...

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I was hoping for something else when I read the thread title...

 

[James NM]

What the hell is this, 1800? Who's the targeted consumer base, Davy Crockett?

We're in 2010... I don't know, sounds satirical to an urban living going guy who works in an office from 9-5 monday to friday and never had to hunt for his meal...

The varmint grenades are very popular bullets with varmint hunters. They excel at quick and humane kills of varmints and predators. A lot of people (for example me) live in areas of the country where we have to deal with unwanted varmints and predators like coyotes, mountain lions, bobcats, and even cute little gophers and prairie dogs.

valuable bobcat and beaver pelts are virtually undamaged.

Actually the ad said "Coyote and bobcat", not bobcat and beaver. If you thought the animal pictured in the video during this remark was a beaver, you really are a city slicker!

And on a somewhat unrelated note, amazing how matter react at high speeds or extreme conditions... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg&feature=related More 'miraculous' or amazing than any made up silliness

No made up silliness here. Just actual footage of the effectiveness of the bullet on varmints. IIRC, this ad was not meant to appeal to PETA members or readers of the Huffington Post.

And in the interest of full disclosure, there are some varmint grenades sitting on my ammo shelf.

 

[s162216]

Im all for the second amendment, but its pretty scary what people can buy. Is it really necessary to be able to buy .50 cal armor piercing incendiary rounds?

As far as I know only NATO/US troops can obtain .50 BMF armour percing incendiary rounds so that they can't be used in crimes etc as they have one hell of an amount of force and are pretty much unstoppable.

Fragmentation bullets, well, fragments and does a LOT more tissue damage, as it also breaks up, more of the energy gets absorbed in the body, but as it does, it does a lot more damage... I was under the impression that these types of bullets were not legal, hell, if armies can't use them because it causes to much pain and too grave injuries, I was under the impression that these bullets could not be purchased anywhere and would not be used by law enforcement agencies and the such... I feel so much safer now that I know that they are...

Thats due to an very old agreement called the Hague convention which amongst other things outlawed exploding, expanding or poisoned ammunition for millitary use. Other things supposedly banned included shells filled with gas but ironically it didn't include anything about cylinders of gas so everyone just used them instead in WWI.

 

[jamie2112]

I thought there were some women's parts in this thread ............
BUMMER

 

[dkane360]

As far as I know only NATO/US troops can obtain .50 BMF armour percing incendiary rounds so that they can't be used in crimes etc as they have one hell of an amount of force and are pretty much unstoppable.

http://www.firequest.com/AM225.html

 

[droht]

The seeming pride we take in our ability to destroy other living things never ceases to amaze and sicken me.

Lock and load boys...


And I'm with you GM - I would have bet that was a parody ad.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Militaries don't use fragmenting or expanding rounds, not only because it's illegal, but from a practical standpoint as well. These rounds have less penetrating power and won't get through obstacles as easily. Plus, from a bigger picture point of view, a wounded soldier can be more of a hindrance to the enemy than a dead one. It ties up a lot of people and resources to evacuate and treat wounded personnel.

 

[Nugu]

I'm with James NM, I also live in the country side. Having rabbits and deer around my house I don't mind, but when I walk outside in the dark/evening to a POSSUM hissing/spitting at me I'm not happy. Also, bobcat sitings aren't unheard of around here.


These things have their uses and shouldn't be banned for being "extreme". If it makes you feel better, whenever I kill a possum I shoot it in the face twice with buckshot so it doesn't suffer overly long.

 

[s162216]

Militaries don't use fragmenting or expanding rounds, not only because it's illegal, but from a practical standpoint as well. These rounds have less penetrating power and won't get through obstacles as easily. Plus, from a bigger picture point of view, a wounded soldier can be more of a hindrance to the enemy than a dead one. It ties up a lot of people and resources to evacuate and treat wounded personnel.

But in some cases such as hostage rescue that could be useful as the rounds are less likely to pass through the target and possibly hit a hosatge.
There was a problem like that when the SAS stormed the Iranian Embassy in London in 1980, a terrorist was amongst the hostages but the SAS could not shoot immediately because their rounds would have passed straight throught the terrorist and hit the hostages and this guy had a fragmentation grenade in his hand. So the SAS had to get close and smash the guy round the head, where he promtly fell down the stairs and died after 2 SAS troopers both emptied a full 30 round 9mm magazine into him as he fell.

What is the point of .50 BMG Armour Piercing Incendiary rounds for civilians? If your hunting .50 is overkill anyway and animals don't wear body armour. Useless for self defence as well as .50 BMG rifles are hugh. Pretty much the only use is for crime or as a status symbol.

 

[dkane360]

What is the point of .50 BMG Armour Piercing Incendiary rounds for civilians? If your hunting .50 is overkill anyway and animals don't wear body armour. Useless for self defence as well as .50 BMG rifles are hugh. Pretty much the only use is for crime or as a status symbol.

I agree. There is no reason why civ's should be able to buy it. It would look pretty cool on my desk though lol.

 

[GO-NAD!]

But in some cases such as hostage rescue that could be useful as the rounds are less likely to pass through the target and possibly hit a hosatge.
There was a problem like that when the SAS stormed the Iranian Embassy in London in 1980, a terrorist was amongst the hostages but the SAS could not shoot immediately because their rounds would have passed straight throught the terrorist and hit the hostages and this guy had a fragmentation grenade in his hand. So the SAS had to get close and smash the guy round the head, where he promtly fell down the stairs and died after 2 SAS troopers both emptied a full 30 round 9mm magazine into him as he fell.

What is the point of .50 BMG Armour Piercing Incendiary rounds for civilians? If your hunting .50 is overkill anyway and animals don't wear body armour. Useless for self defence as well as .50 BMG rifles are hugh. Pretty much the only use is for crime or as a status symbol.

You'll get no argument from me on either point.

 

[darien87]

I got into an argument with a gun lover a couple of years ago when they were trying to outlaw .50 caliber rifles. He was vehemently against it. When I asked him, "What use could you possibly have for a Barrett?", his response was, "I should be able to shoot a guy through a wall from a mile away if I want to."

Gimme a break. Buy a Glock or a shotgun for home defense if you want to, but there is no practical civilian use for a .50 caliber rifle. Not to mention, ammo is HELLA expensive.

 

[Alex2507]

I thought there were some women's parts in this thread ............
BUMMER

The only pertinent comment to an otherwaise unencumbered mind and it goes ignored ... for shame.

 

[Chu Gai]

Always remember when hunting beaver to aim carefully. They don't always come with targets.

http://www.buckwiz.com/images/STC/ELBJB006.jpg

 

[Patrukas777]

I got into an argument with a gun lover a couple of years ago when they were trying to outlaw .50 caliber rifles. He was vehemently against it. When I asked him, "What use could you possibly have for a Barrett?", his response was, "I should be able to shoot a guy through a wall from a mile away if I want to."

Gimme a break. Buy a Glock or a shotgun for home defense if you want to, but there is no practical civilian use for a .50 caliber rifle. Not to mention, ammo is HELLA expensive.

A shotgun is one of the best home defensive weapons...It's easy to teach the wife how to shoot one. I don't see the need of a .50 cal rifle. A shotgun is great in close quarters. Not to mention it is a great point and shoot weapon.