Passive radiator-which direction

walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Well the subs are going to stay where they're at. Man I am tired of moving these things around. I have one last question, which way should the passive radiator befacing. Right now I have it facing towards the listening area. A friend of mine stopped by today and he said it should be firing in the other direction which would be the kitchen area. I do have another of the same subs which I had build in mirrow image so changing would be no problem. Which would be the right firing direction. I think I am loosing it. Thanks
I think I need another Heineken.
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Well the subs are going to stay where they're at. Man I am tired of moving these things around. I have one last question, which way should the passive radiator befacing. Right now I have it facing towards the listening area. A friend of mine stopped by today and he said it should be firing in the other direction which would be the kitchen area. I do have another of the same subs which I had build in mirrow image so changing would be no problem. Which would be the right firing direction. I think I am loosing it. Thanks
I think I need another Heineken.
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It does not matter, but you would have to reverse phase of you turn it round.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Which way does the driver face?

My Velodyne has a 10" driver and a 12" passive radiator. For me, your quandary is a non-issue: The driver is mounted on the front and the passive radiator faces downwards towards the floor.

If your driver is on the front, I'd try to face the passive radiator towards the wall behind the unit. In either case, try to face the driver towards the listening area.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
I do have the same sub with the radiator facing the other way. Is this good the way it is or should I change it? Thanks Doc
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
My Velodyne has a 10" driver and a 12" passive radiator. For me, your quandary is a non-issue: The driver is mounted on the front and the passive radiator faces downwards towards the floor.

If your driver is on the front, I'd try to face the passive radiator towards the wall behind the unit. In either case, try to face the driver towards the listening area.
So I am good the way it is, right? Not like I could tell the difference anyway.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I do have the same sub with the radiator facing the other way. Is this good the way it is or should I change it? Thanks Doc
Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to tell me. What do you mean by the same sub? Do you mean you have two of those subs facing in opposite directions? If so, that is a mess.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to tell me. What do you mean by the same sub? Do you mean you have two of those subs facing in opposite directions? If so, that is a mess.
When I owned my house (bevore divorce) I had the two front subs build in mirrow image. I used these subs with passive radiator facing outward in front and two down firing subs for the rear.

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D

DaveHo

Audioholic
My only comment would be that the dirver, which ever it is, that's facing the other sub is way too close to breathe properly. Give it some more room.
 
Stereodude

Stereodude

Senior Audioholic
My Velodyne has a 10" driver and a 12" passive radiator. For me, your quandary is a non-issue: The driver is mounted on the front and the passive radiator faces downwards towards the floor.
I've never heard of a downward firing passive radiator. I would think that gravity sag on a PR would be very bad.
 
darien87

darien87

Audioholic Spartan
Remember that a PR doesn't really "fire" anywhere. It is essentially a port that doesn't know it's sealed. Just make sure you have about 6" of clear space in front of the PR and you should be good to go. The active sub is what you need to be more concerned about as far as which direction it is facing.

But ultimately you need to try it both ways and see which sounds better.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Remember that a PR doesn't really "fire" anywhere. It is essentially a port that doesn't know it's sealed. Just make sure you have about 6" of clear space in front of the PR and you should be good to go. The active sub is what you need to be more concerned about as far as which direction it is facing.

But ultimately you need to try it both ways and see which sounds better.
Actually most of the bass will be radiated by the PR, just like it would be for a port.

At system resonance the driver virtually stops still and the bass comes from the PR. Below F3 the driver takes over, but large cone movements become ineffective and little sound is radiated. Above tuning frequency the driver starts to take over and the PR stops radiating sound.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Actually most of the bass will be radiated by the PR, just like it would be for a port.

At system resonance the driver virtually stops still and the bass comes from the PR. Below F3 the driver takes over, but large cone movements become ineffective and little sound is radiated. Above tuning frequency the driver starts to take over and the PR stops radiating sound.
I am starting to find out how little I know about these things. This is more complicated than I thought.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Check out Velodyne VA-1012, or a 1215.

I've never heard of a downward firing passive radiator. I would think that gravity sag on a PR would be very bad.
Damn! I wish I knew that when I bought it ...in 1998. It's been working just fine ever since.

Remember, A PR really isn't all that heavy.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I am starting to find out how little I know about these things. This is more complicated than I thought.
Take a look at this sub.

Tuning frequency is around 20 Hz. Scroll down to the cone displacement graph and note that at full power 500 watts, woofer cones displacement is only 4.75 mm.

Now look at the vent air velocity and you see as cone displacement decreases vent air velocity increases, up to 18 mm/sec. So it is the vent really moving air.

It would be the same for a PR, the PR displacement would would look like the graph of vent air velocity.

Below Fb cone displacement increases but as you can see form the graphs, sound output rapidly decreases.

It is all about acoustic transformation.

A loudspeaker cone is actually very inefficient at producing sound.

So sealed, IB and open baffle designs are inherently wasteful. That is why expensive drivers with large excursions and huge amps are required.

The most efficient transformater is the horn. Unless very carefully designed colorations intrude.

The ported and PR designs are fairly good acoustic transformers, but reproduction is inherently resonant. While this can be minimized with careful design, I never get that feeling of the sound not being reproduced.

Pipes give the option of still having transformation (i.e. port output) and still allow for critical damping, so that if done properly you get that real sense that the bass is in no way artificial or reproduced. Admittedly efficiency is sacrificed compared to an undamped fully resonant pipe, but the trade off is still attractive.

I'm very sensitive to a resonant bass, and it really destroys the illusion for me. So I find the real estate you have to devote to TLs or horns worthwhile.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Actually most of the bass will be radiated by the PR, just like it would be for a port.

At system resonance the driver virtually stops still and the bass comes from the PR. Below F3 the driver takes over, but large cone movements become ineffective and little sound is radiated. Above tuning frequency the driver starts to take over and the PR stops radiating sound.
I just had to go home and check out the movement of the PR. I never realized that there is so much movement in it. Seems like at times it's pushing more air then the sub driver.. I put my fingers on the drivers while checking this out.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I just had to go home and check out the movement of the PR. I never realized that there is so much movement in it. Seems like at times it's pushing more air then the sub driver.. I put my fingers on the drivers while checking this out.
I hope your neighbors were out.:D
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
[
QUOTE=Rickster71;720501]I hope your neighbors were out.:D
[/QUOTE]
They where out allright. They started partying early today. Them subs do sound good. It sounds like I finally have them placed right.
 
Stereodude

Stereodude

Senior Audioholic
Remember, A PR really isn't all that heavy.
That depend on the tuning frequency. Some can have over 2kg's of mass on them. The 4 I put in one of my DIY subs definitely would bottom out due to gravity if they were "downfiring".
 
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