Dolby True HD and DTS HD MA

[PENG]

According to my wife if I had crappy gear I could have retired long time ago. Now I gather that how noticeable depends on:

- how crappy your gear are, especially those with DefTech speakers (according to Gregg, so don't attack me)
- how loud you listen to.
- the individual disc/transfer.
- your imagination.
- how hard you try.
- what's in you head.

Not in any particular order. Feel free to add.................

 

[TLS Guy]

The loss less codecs are a huge improvement.

As I have stated before, opera which I love as an art form, sounds dreadful via lossy codecs on DVDs so you have to use the two channel PCM layer, which is loss less.

The Blue Ray discs I have obtained are a revelation.

The problem with the lossy codecs, is severe loss of ambiance and sense of space.

Very harsh vocal sound especially the tenors, although sopranos sound like a caricature also.

The brass has a lack of fullness and a nasty nasality.

The bass definition is really mucked up with no sense of space and depth to the tympani.

Going from lossy to loss less is like night and day.

On Blue Ray everything is as it should be. And now with Audyssey re timing the speakers, the sense of space is uncanny. The space of the various theaters does carry across, and well. Glyndebourne sounds very different from the huge Festspiel House at Barden Barden, and the old intimate baroque theater at Drottingholm sounds very different again.

Actually I'm still spell bound by it all and totally elated.

If any one wants a thoroughly enjoyable BD then this production of Carmen from Glyndebourne is for you.

This production is beautifully recorded and filmed by the BBC. It has the most realistic balance of pit and stage I have heard of.

Most of you will already be familiar with a lot of the music. There is not a bad voice on stage. Anne Sofie Von Otto, is in fine voice as Carmen. She shows herself to an actress of the first rank and a gorgeous seductress.

Philipe Jordan leads an energetic performance from start to finish and that's putting it mildly.

The fight seen is up to anything from Hollywood.

Anybody who spends a few dollars on this disc will not be disappointed, and I bet will play it again and again.

I regard this disc as landmark in how far we have come in reproducing a live event in the home.

For movies with not much musical content I would agree there is not much gain, though I think and so do others that speech is more natural on Blue Ray.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I did look at Trinity subs recently but Clocksrock said the world would end if I got one.

Did you know that I went back to consumer level subs?
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64933&page=39

JL F113, huh?

That's cool.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

All I can say is that the Dave Mathews blu-ray in Dolby TrueHD is the best audio music I have ever heard.

 

[krzywica]

If any one wants a thoroughly enjoyable BD then this production of Carmen from Glyndebourne is for you.

Do you have the TrueHD version or the DTC-HDMA one? I see two are available.

 

[TLS Guy]

Do you have the TrueHD version or the DTC-HDMA one? I see two are available.

I have the True HD version. In fact my disc has Dolby True HD stereo and True HD 5.1 There is no lossy track on my disc at all, only loss less audio. That is the way it should be.

 

[krzywica]

All I can say is that the Dave Mathews blu-ray in Dolby TrueHD is the best audio music I have ever heard.

I thought that as well until I watched the Chris Botti concert...all I can say is WOW!

 

[GlocksRock]

I thought that as well until I watched the Chris Botti concert...all I can say is WOW!

I have the live in Boston blu ray with the 7.1 true hd 96/24 track and it sounds amazing.

 

[krzywica]

I have the live in Boston blu ray with the 7.1 true hd 96/24 track and it sounds amazing.

Thats the one.

 

[krzywica]

I have the True HD version. In fact my disc has Dolby True HD stereo and True HD 5.1 There is no lossy track on my disc at all, only loss less audio. That is the way it should be.

Except for the DD core inside the TrueHD track of course.

Thanks for the info I'll pick that one up as I'm a huge fan of fine music and my sheila is a voice pedagogy student and loves opera.

 

[avliner]

All I can say is that the Dave Mathews blu-ray in Dolby TrueHD is the best audio music I have ever heard.

DM is indeed another good reference (believe it was the first BD concert recorded at 96/24, though), but when I got Roy Orbison's Black & White Night, my jaw simply dropped-off. I might be wrong, but I believe that there's no other remastering on BD concert with such a top quality, though. My next BD concert will be Chris Botti, but this one hasn't been remastered and SQ should be paramount as well

 

[PENG]

I have the live in Boston blu ray with the 7.1 true hd 96/24 track and it sounds amazing.

I have that one too. It does sound great but there isn't much difference between the lossless and lossy tracks. It is noticeable but not huge. This thing is like fishing, the fish get smaller from the hook to the photo to the scale.

I guess what some call huge is just subtle for others. Serious it has nothing to do with the crappy gear theory as long as we are talking mid to upper mid range gear of good values. If it is due to the gear, how come most people have no trouble noticing the difference between speakers, and between FM radio and CD and yet have hard time noticing the so called "huge" or "day and night" difference between DVD's DTS track and the BR's DTS-HD-MA track? When people say day and night difference do they man dark and bright, black and white? If they did mean something like that, then I would just give up and shut up as there would be no point arguing. Every one can have their kind of dreams and imaginations, it makes life more interesting and enjoyable.

 

[Vracer111]

I have that one too. It does sound great but there isn't much difference between the lossless and lossy tracks. It is noticeable but not huge. This thing is like fishing, the fish get smaller from the hook to the photo to the scale.

I guess what some call huge is just subtle for others. Serious it has nothing to do with the crappy gear theory as long as we are talking mid to upper mid range gear of good values. If it is due to the gear, how come most people have no trouble noticing the difference between speakers, and between FM radio and CD and yet have hard time noticing the so called "huge" or "day and night" difference between DVD's DTS track and the BR's DTS-HD-MA track? When people say day and night difference do they man dark and bright, black and white? If they did mean something like that, then I would just give up and shut up as there would be no point arguing. Every one can have their kind of dreams and imaginations, it makes life more interesting and enjoyable.

It's not a HUGE difference but it is a noticeable difference. Take Wall-E or Quantum of Solace... the DTS audio is good on those DVDs, but it just can't compare to the range, clarity, and presence found on the DTS HD Master Audio tracks of the Blu-Ray releases. It is an audible difference, much like the difference between a CD and an SA-CD or DVD-A, more range, clarity, and authority. I guess some could consider the difference small but extended range, improved clarity, and greater authority are very perceivable if you are a critical listener. I also have the grills off my speakers for the fact that there is more clarity with them off, it might be extremely minute and nearly non-perceptible - but audible difference is a difference.

Like the difference in handling between a full tank of gas and and a half full tank or a half full tank and nearly empty tank in a vehicle. The difference in handling is noticeable, if you are perceptive to it. Suspension sensitivity, vehicle rotation, and vehicle acceleration are different at the three different levels, whether it be a FF, FR, F/AWD, RR, or MR layout. The handling changing with the tank level will be most perceptible in an FR truck and least perceptible in an MR Toyota MR2, but it's a perceptible difference for both.

 

[GlocksRock]

To those who say they can't hear a difference, how are you comparing the two? Are you listening to a scene from a blu ray in standard dd/dts, then rewatching the same scene in lossless, or are you playing a scene in standard dd/dts, then switching the audio to lossless during the same scene without restarting it?

 

[krzywica]

I have that one too. It does sound great but there isn't much difference between the lossless and lossy tracks. It is noticeable but not huge. This thing is like fishing, the fish get smaller from the hook to the photo to the scale.

I guess what some call huge is just subtle for others. Serious it has nothing to do with the crappy gear theory as long as we are talking mid to upper mid range gear of good values. If it is due to the gear, how come most people have no trouble noticing the difference between speakers, and between FM radio and CD and yet have hard time noticing the so called "huge" or "day and night" difference between DVD's DTS track and the BR's DTS-HD-MA track? When people say day and night difference do they man dark and bright, black and white? If they did mean something like that, then I would just give up and shut up as there would be no point arguing. Every one can have their kind of dreams and imaginations, it makes life more interesting and enjoyable.

Put it this way.......if I watch a movie that I have seen before in my HT with an HD audio track and start playing back the movie with the DD/DTS track I can tell almost right away and it doesn't sound right to me. And thats with my gear in another room so I can't see the little light that says DTS-HDMA or TrueHD.

 

[PENG]

It's not a HUGE difference but it is a noticeable difference. Take Wall-E or Quantum of Solace... the DTS audio is good on those DVDs, but it just can't compare to the range, clarity, and presence found on the DTS HD Master Audio tracks of the Blu-Ray releases. It is an audible difference, much like the difference between a CD and an SA-CD or DVD-A, more range, clarity, and authority. I guess some could consider the difference small but extended range, improved clarity, and greater authority are very perceivable if you are a critical listener. I also have the grills off my speakers for the fact that there is more clarity with them off, it might be extremely minute and nearly non-perceptible - but audible difference is a difference.

Like the difference in handling between a full tank of gas and and a half full tank or a half full tank and nearly empty tank in a vehicle. The difference in handling is noticeable, if you are perceptive to it. Suspension sensitivity, vehicle rotation, and vehicle acceleration are different at the three different levels, whether it be a FF, FR, F/AWD, RR, or MR layout. The handling changing with the tank level will be most perceptible in an FR truck and least perceptible in an MR Toyota MR2, but it's a perceptible difference for both.

It seems to me we are in agreement. I never said there was no difference.

 

[PENG]

Put it this way.......if I watch a movie that I have seen before in my HT with an HD audio track and start playing back the movie with the DD/DTS track I can tell almost right away and it doesn't sound right to me. And thats with my gear in another room so I can't see the little light that says DTS-HDMA or TrueHD.

All these are fair comments when you actually describe the difference in ways that people can relate to (like you just did), instead of simply telling people the difference is like day and night sort of things. If you care to read my post again you will see that I said there was a noticeable difference, but not huge. I also said huge to someone may be subtle to others.

 

[PENG]

To those who say they can't hear a difference, how are you comparing the two? Are you listening to a scene from a blu ray in standard dd/dts, then rewatching the same scene in lossless, or are you playing a scene in standard dd/dts, then switching the audio to lossless during the same scene without restarting it?

I know your question is directed to those who say they can't hear a difference and I sure hope those people would answer your question directly.

While waiting for responses that may or may not come, I can tell you I have not only done what you said, but have also tried other ways such as playing both side of my combo HD DVDs as well as comparing the Chris Botti in Boston using the uncompressed tracks and the compressed tracks. We thought the difference was noticeable but not what we would consider huge, or significant.

It was not just me doing the comparsion sessions all the time but on one occasion, (using Chris Botti in Boston) with the participation of two young musicians who I assume have close to perfect hearing. I can PM you more specifics if you wish. I can also tell you the gear used while certainly not in the same league as the likes of B&W802 or Paradigm S8 but are most likely comparable to or better than the gear of at least some who reportedly heard day and night/huge differences. Don't get me wrong, I believe the quality of the gear has an impact on the results but in my comparisons the same gear has no trouble telling us the difference between the SQ of FM radio, DD5.1 from the TV HD box, DVD, CD etc.

I really think without having us sit in the same room and do some blind tests we can argue until the end of time and still prove nothing. So perhaps we can accept the fact that people like me and many others do appreciate the noticeably improved sound quality of BR while others are excited about the huge improvement they perceive.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...much like the difference between a CD and an SA-CD or DVD-A, more range, clarity, and authority...

Well, this just cannot be the case as this has been experimented with in a credible DBT and also published in JAES that there is no audible difference unless the CD is a different mastering/EQing from SACD or is multi channel compared to stereo.

http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/explanation.htm

 

[PENG]

Well, this just cannot be the case as this has been experimented with in a credible DBT and also published in JAES that there is no audible difference unless the CD is a different mastering/EQing from SACD or is multi channel compared to stereo.

http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/explanation.htm

I find the recording itself has much greater impact on sound quality. In fact I have a few CDs that sound noticeably better than any of my SACDs/DVDAs. No, it is not an apple to apple comparison but it is again like comparing the SQ of FM radio to CD wih the SACDs being the FM in this case. I find it hard to believe and I wish it wasn't the case as I spent a fortune (by my standard) on my SACD/DVDA hardware and software.