High passing advice?

[yepimonfire]

getting ready to move down to a 2.1 ch system but one of my biggest issues is properly crossing over my sub and speakers, the subwoofer has a LP filter, but i have no realistic way to high pass the mains. i could just wire a passive 80hz high pass into it, but my concern with that is that all it will do is rob amplifier power, which is one of the reason for crossing over mains, is so the amplifier can be free to only work on the mid-bass, mid-range, and highs. i would leave them un crossed over, i mean my mains are bass capable, but that defeats the idea of having a four way system. any idea on how to do this without having to mortgage my house to pay for the parts. only things ive seen that can actively cross a sub over are preamps within the range of 6000 dollars, honestly i would not pay 6000 dollars for a glorified analog "volume control"

 

[mtrycrafts]

getting ready to move down to a 2.1 ch system but one of my biggest issues is properly crossing over my sub and speakers, the subwoofer has a LP filter, but i have no realistic way to high pass the mains. i could just wire a passive 80hz high pass into it, but my concern with that is that all it will do is rob amplifier power, which is one of the reason for crossing over mains, is so the amplifier can be free to only work on the mid-bass, mid-range, and highs. i would leave them un crossed over, i mean my mains are bass capable, but that defeats the idea of having a four way system. any idea on how to do this without having to mortgage my house to pay for the parts. only things ive seen that can actively cross a sub over are preamps within the range of 6000 dollars, honestly i would not pay 6000 dollars for a glorified analog "volume control"

How is the sub connected and to what, a processor? Speakers? Active sub?

 

[yepimonfire]

atm its connected to a surround receiver in 2ch mode, but it will be connected via speaker level input to a receiver and low-passed using the built in LP knob on the sub.

 

[highfigh]

getting ready to move down to a 2.1 ch system but one of my biggest issues is properly crossing over my sub and speakers, the subwoofer has a LP filter, but i have no realistic way to high pass the mains. i could just wire a passive 80hz high pass into it, but my concern with that is that all it will do is rob amplifier power, which is one of the reason for crossing over mains, is so the amplifier can be free to only work on the mid-bass, mid-range, and highs. i would leave them un crossed over, i mean my mains are bass capable, but that defeats the idea of having a four way system. any idea on how to do this without having to mortgage my house to pay for the parts. only things ive seen that can actively cross a sub over are preamps within the range of 6000 dollars, honestly i would not pay 6000 dollars for a glorified analog "volume control"

$6000 for the only thing you have found that has a high and low pass crossover? You can get a $99 Behringer equalizer that has both and they actually sound good. Probably wouldn't add any noise if the controls are set correctly, either. Where have you looked?

If you're using an AV receiver, why not just set it to play through the fronts, turn off the rest and use the LP out? That certainly didn't cost $6K, right?

 

[yepimonfire]

is there such thing as an analog pre-amp that doesent cost an arm and a leg, i mean arent they just glorified volume controls (maybe some bells and whistles but still)? ive been wanting to set up a preamp proamp system for awhile, but the cost of the pre-amps are higher then an amplifier.

 

[lsiberian]

A Behringer DCX 2496 costs only 300 bucks and can do every kind of filtering you're heart could want.

Of course I'd upgrade speakers first. I think Behringer 2030p's would be a nice step up.

 

[yepimonfire]

depends on how good they can handle mid-bass and mid-range. i hooked a set of 2-ways up to my system recently and hated the sound, even with a subwoofer, they sounded "forced" and mid-range heavy compared to the cheap sony 3-ways, tried this will all three pairs of 2-ways i own. if i upgraded speakers i would certainly go with some three ways. differences i noticed between 2 and three way speaker were 1. treble response sounded as if it was chopped in half, 2. midrange from about 300hz-1khz, seemed to "dominate" the overall sound, 3. the dynamics went down substantially. and this was with them crossed over at 100hz this wasnt a placebo effect either because firstly, i was not expecting a difference in sound, and it wasnt some "subtle" difference it was like as i switched back and forth with the A/B switcher, a totally different sound.

 

[yepimonfire]

alright this thread is getting derailed. back on track. what would be the downsides of using a passive 80hz HPF

 

[lsiberian]

alright this thread is getting derailed. back on track. what would be the downsides of using a passive 80hz HPF

The components would cost a lot of money.

 

[yepimonfire]

no im talking about inline passive high pass filters. they are just simple high pass filters, not components. question is would this rob amplifier power? if so to what extent?

 

[dkane360]

no im talking about inline passive high pass filters. they are just simple high pass filters, not components. question is would this rob amplifier power? if so to what extent?

Can I ask why you always seem so concerned about not having enough amplifier power?

 

[yepimonfire]

sure, because out of every amplifier ive owned, the higher wpc ones always sounded better at my normal (loud) volume levels, the lowest wpc one ive owned is 50wpc and i cant crank it without loads of distortion and what sounds like "forced" low end. at a relatively quiet level, (just loud enough to hear the music clearly) they sound the same. oh and with the 50wpc the clipping i would get on high volume levels has ruined several tweeters, keep in mind i was not listening that loud, volume knob was at around 11 o clock. i also know below 80hz is where most of your amplifier power gets eaten up and if a passive high pass filter is just going to simply burn off that power i would be wasting over 50% of it.

 

[TLS Guy]

no im talking about inline passive high pass filters. they are just simple high pass filters, not components. question is would this rob amplifier power? if so to what extent?

Its not simple and its a mess.

Passive components work poorly below 350 Hz. Insertion loss would be half your amp power at least.

A preamp is not a glorified volume control.

I have a strong suspicion you are always mucking about with very poor speakers.

I suspect your best bet is to save for decent speakers.

 

[lsiberian]

Its not simple and its a mess.

Passive components work poorly below 350 Hz. Insertion loss would be half your amp power at least.

A preamp is not a glorified volume control.

I have a strong suspicion you are always mucking about with very poor speakers.

I suspect your best bet is to save for decent speakers.

I will second this statement. It's time you save up for better speakers. Your speakers will simply never be what you are looking for. Infinity Primus speakers seemed to have a very good F-R curve and are the 3-way speakers you like. I suggest you save up for a pair of 362's. Because they've been around a while the engineering cost has been paid already so the prices are pretty reasonable.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/529927-REG/Infinity_P362BK_Primus_P362BK_Dual_6_1_2_.html
is $330 there. Let's save your money and once we get your speakers up to spec we'll work on the processing end.

Do keep your eyes on fry's because they've been known to offer tremendous deal on these speakers before.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

 

[yepimonfire]

those are some nice speakers, i actually had my eye on some polk monitor 70s though. ive demoed a few polk speakers and own a polk sub and i really like how they sound.