Quien es Mas Macho: HSU ULS-15 or two SB12-NSDs?

[WallisH]

I bought one of the large SVS box subs a few years ago and while I loved it, my wife hated hated hated it because of its size. I'm now having to switch to a smaller sub that will fit inside a built-in cabinet. I am only considering SVS and HSU. Because of size constraints, I'm primarily focusing on the ULS-15 or the soon-to-be-released SB12-NSD (I am not inclined to get a downward firing sub for inside a cabinet). Here are other relevant factors:

1. Location: Sub will go in a cabinet in the corner of the room.

2. Room Size. Room is over 5000 cubic feet, and opens to kitchen, stairs, and hallway.

3. Sub Use. I primarily use it for Home Theater. Will listen some to music, but rarely above the moderate level, if even that high. I also found my old SVS had far more power than I actually used (which, of course, was fine with me).

4. Speakers. Have ordered SBS-01s for the speaker system.

So I am trying to decide between ULS and SB12-NSD. ULS-15 will certainly be more powerful--probably more than I need. On the flip side, I'm worried that the SB12-NSD may be a little underpowered. But, I think that I can always correct that by getting another SB12-NSD and putting it in the cabinet next to the first one.

I'd be interested in what people recommend, and whether people think one ULS-15 is as good as two SB12-NSDs. Obviously, this is all somewhat theoretical because the SB12-NSD hasn't hit the market yet; I'm assuming that it will be somewhat better than the SB12-Plus, but not significantly better.

Thoughts?

 

[j_garcia]

A sub inside of another cabinet is never a good idea and though sealed will help, it will still suffer. TWO subs in the same cabinet will just compound the issue IMO. It sounds like one ULS-15 would be more than enough for you.

 

[skers_54]

I agree with j_garcia on the placement. If you're looking to spend that kind of coin, you should either find another spot for it or research how to really treat a cavity like that to minimize resonance. The poster WmAx has discussed it previously here.

That said, I don't think it'll really matter what sub you get as long as it has enough output. The resonances from a cabinet like that (especially untreated) will pretty much kill any SQ from the sub compared to your larger SVS.

 

[WallisH]

Thanks, guys. I would love to get a subwoofer outside the cabinet, but the WAF issue means it has to go inside the cabinet. Talking to the people at SVS and HSU, I get the impression that the placement inside a cabinet won't be a major problem so long as the woofer is aligned with a hole in the cabinet. I'm planning to get a sealed sub and place the woofer right next to a cutout at the front of the cabinet, which will hopefully help with the inherent problems.

My heart says I should get the ULS. My back says that I don't want to wrestle a 93-pound sub into a tight space.

 

[skers_54]

Thanks, guys. I would love to get a subwoofer outside the cabinet, but the WAF issue means it has to go inside the cabinet. Talking to the people at SVS and HSU, I get the impression that the placement inside a cabinet won't be a major problem so long as the woofer is aligned with a hole in the cabinet. I'm planning to get a sealed sub and place the woofer right next to a cutout at the front of the cabinet, which will hopefully help with the inherent problems.

My heart says I should get the ULS. My back says that I don't want to wrestle a 93-pound sub into a tight space.

Bass is omnidirectional, so the output from the driver will wrap around the sub and radiate in all directions. So you'll still have some issues. Sealed is definitely the only way to make that space work, and lining the cabinet walls with rockwool and dampening material will help some. Your room is huge so I'd go with whatever will give you more output (probably the HSU).

As a side note, the HSU is wireless so you could theoretically find a dark corner or end table to place it under and not have to worry about running a signal wire across the room. Just a thought as it hasn't been mentioned.

 

[WallisH]

What about just putting some dampening/sound absorbing material around the woofer so all the sound funnels straight ahead?

Never heard of rockwool before; certainly can use that as well.

I may talk to my wife about the HSU unit being outside the cabinet; it is not too large, and if I get a nice finish, she may think that it doesn't look too ugly. But one possible problem is that I have a special needs son who might destroy the woofer if he could get to it. I suppose a downward-firing unit might avoid that issue.

I had a PB-12 Plus in the room before, and it was more powerful than I needed (and much more powerful than my wife wanted). So, I have to deal with several issues: Size (wife wants small sub), appearance (wife hated big black sub), and power (wife thought sub was too powerful, and I couldn't completely disagree). Putting a sub in the cabinet avoids all of these, and leaving a sub out may raise some issues.

One other thought on the HSU--how much access will I really need to the back side? If I can just set the settings once, slide it into the cabinet, and leave it alone for a few years, I might be able to work with it. But the thought of having to move it frequently in and out of that cabinet terrifies me.

 

[skers_54]

What about just putting some dampening/sound absorbing material around the woofer so all the sound funnels straight ahead?

Never heard of rockwool before; certainly can use that as well.

I may talk to my wife about the HSU unit being outside the cabinet; it is not too large, and if I get a nice finish, she may think that it doesn't look too ugly. But one possible problem is that I have a special needs son who might destroy the woofer if he could get to it. I suppose a downward-firing unit might avoid that issue.

I had a PB-12 Plus in the room before, and it was more powerful than I needed (and much more powerful than my wife wanted). So, I have to deal with several issues: Size (wife wants small sub), appearance (wife hated big black sub), and power (wife thought sub was too powerful, and I couldn't completely disagree). Putting a sub in the cabinet avoids all of these, and leaving a sub out may raise some issues.

One other thought on the HSU--how much access will I really need to the back side? If I can just set the settings once, slide it into the cabinet, and leave it alone for a few years, I might be able to work with it. But the thought of having to move it frequently in and out of that cabinet terrifies me.

Rockwool is dense fiberglass-like material that is good at absorbing sound. You'd want to use that to line (propbably pretty much stuff) the cabinet. The bass will still wrap around the sub but the rockwool will absorb a lot of it.

The HSU comes with a grill to cover the driver, which may help. Unless the cabinet is going to have a locked door, you still may have that possibility. You know your son best though.

You'll need to access the back panel while you're setting it up, so you may need to move it around a few times before it's dialed in. You can put furniture gliders under the sub so you can just slide it out rather than having to lift from an akward position.

I can't really think of any down-firing sealed subs off-hand. You'll want to stay sealed as ported subs by nature tend to be larger. As far as the output, you can always turn the gain down if you think it's too loud. Have you used an SPL meter or an auto-setup routine with your SVS?

I hope this helps. You've got a tough situation to work with. Maybe you could trade the wife in? j/k

 

[WallisH]

Rockwool is dense fiberglass-like material that is good at absorbing sound. You'd want to use that to line (propbably pretty much stuff) the cabinet. The bass will still wrap around the sub but the rockwool will absorb a lot of it.

The HSU comes with a grill to cover the driver, which may help. Unless the cabinet is going to have a locked door, you still may have that possibility. You know your son best though.

You'll need to access the back panel while you're setting it up, so you may need to move it around a few times before it's dialed in. You can put furniture gliders under the sub so you can just slide it out rather than having to lift from an akward position.

I can't really think of any down-firing sealed subs off-hand. You'll want to stay sealed as ported subs by nature tend to be larger. As far as the output, you can always turn the gain down if you think it's too loud. Have you used an SPL meter or an auto-setup routine with your SVS?

I hope this helps. You've got a tough situation to work with. Maybe you could trade the wife in? j/k

I showed your last line to my wife, who lauged and noted that she does take up more space than a subwoofer. I will also note that she is considerably more expensive than one too.

If the HSU has a cover grill, that may be the route to go. That would give me a little more optionality in case the cabinet isn't working and I need to move it out. How nice are the wood veneers on the HSU units?

I did not use any type of auto-setup or SPL meter with my SVS. I just turned it on and adjusted it according to how much my bowels hurt when I was listening to movies. I just bought a Denon 1910, so I'll probably use Audyssey to set up the sub I get.

 

[skers_54]

I showed your last line to my wife, who lauged and noted that she does take up more space than a subwoofer. I will also note that she is considerably more expensive than one too.

If the HSU has a cover grill, that may be the route to go. That would give me a little more optionality in case the cabinet isn't working and I need to move it out. How nice are the wood veneers on the HSU units?

I did not use any type of auto-setup or SPL meter with my SVS. I just turned it on and adjusted it according to how much my bowels hurt when I was listening to movies. I just bought a Denon 1910, so I'll probably use Audyssey to set up the sub I get.

Lol. Your wife's a good sport.

I haven't seen any HSU subs in person so I can't comment on how they look. Their website definitely shows a grill (which would be odd to not have anyways).

I think you'll like what Audyssey does for your system. The 1910 has a nice version (besides being a good receiver in general). Level-matching speakers and subs is a simple but often overlooked step that really improves the sound. Just that itself should take care of issue #3 from above.

 

[WallisH]

It suddenly struck me today that if I was going to consider a ULS-15, then I might as well think about the SB13-Plus as well (comparable in size and cost to ULS-15). I spoke to SVS about the SB13-Plus, and they said that I would get better performance from two SB12-NSDs than one SB13-Plus.

So right now I'm back to thinking about two SB12-NSDs. This also helps out with the WAF issue, as I don't have to hack away at more of my built-in cabinets. (And since I am now middle-aged and spend time every weekend at soul-crushing places like Home Depot, I also like minimizing the damage to our built-ins.)

 

[skers_54]

It suddenly struck me today that if I was going to consider a ULS-15, then I might as well think about the SB13-Plus as well (comparable in size and cost to ULS-15). I spoke to SVS about the SB13-Plus, and they said that I would get better performance from two SB12-NSDs than one SB13-Plus.

So right now I'm back to thinking about two SB12-NSDs. This also helps out with the WAF issue, as I don't have to hack away at more of my built-in cabinets. (And since I am now middle-aged and spend time every weekend at soul-crushing places like Home Depot, I also like minimizing the damage to our built-ins.)

If one cabinet for each sub, then that should work. Two subs will give you better sound over a larger area than one, possibly at a cost of less output compared to one larger/better sub at equal cost to the pair. Output doesn't seem to be a concern for you so two subs makes sense if you can fit them.

I would caution against co-locating them in a single built-in cabinet. You would lose the benefits of two subs and compound the resonance problem from the built-in. If that's not the plan, then two smaller subs is a viable option. Could you post a pic of your cabinets?

 

[WallisH]

If one cabinet for each sub, then that should work. Two subs will give you better sound over a larger area than one, possibly at a cost of less output compared to one larger/better sub at equal cost to the pair. Output doesn't seem to be a concern for you so two subs makes sense if you can fit them.

I would caution against co-locating them in a single built-in cabinet. You would lose the benefits of two subs and compound the resonance problem from the built-in. If that's not the plan, then two smaller subs is a viable option. Could you post a pic of your cabinets?

I haven't tried to attach pictures before, but I'll try now. Assuming that my attempt to attach worked, there should be two picures now: One is a shot of all the cabinets on the left side of my front wall, including the three doors covering the bottom cabinets; the other picture is a closeup of the two cabinet doors behind which I will be putting the subs. In all, I have three cabinet doors in the bottom side of the wall; the door on the far left opens a separate cabinet. The middle door and the right door open into one large cabinet.

In the latter picture, the sub will go in the cabinet on the left side; the cabinet behind the door next to it will hold the second sub along with my receiver, UVerse, and DVD player. In other words, I will have sub, sub, electronics behind the three cabinet doors. The two subs will be separated by a solid wood panel with--at most--a two square inch opening between them.

 

[skers_54]

I haven't tried to attach pictures before, but I'll try now. Assuming that my attempt to attach worked, there should be two picures now: One is a shot of all the cabinets on the left side of my front wall, including the three doors covering the bottom cabinets; the other picture is a closeup of the two cabinet doors behind which I will be putting the subs. In all, I have three cabinet doors in the bottom side of the wall; the door on the far left opens a separate cabinet. The middle door and the right door open into one large cabinet.

In the latter picture, the sub will go in the cabinet on the left side; the cabinet behind the door next to it will hold the second sub along with my receiver, UVerse, and DVD player. In other words, I will have sub, sub, electronics behind the three cabinet doors. The two subs will be separated by a solid wood panel with--at most--a two square inch opening between them.

Hmmm. I see one screen on the door so that space would work. I think you'd need to replace one of the other doors with a similar, acoustically transparent screen if you wanted to do two subs.

I'd recommend getting one sub at first and trying it in both the compartments. If it sounds ok then you're set. If the one with the solid door doesn't work then you'll have to replace that door. Alternatively, you could just take the doors off. That would probably be best from a sound POV. The doors may rattle when the pressure behind them builds up.

I think it would be a good idea to get a sub that could possibly be used in the living space, just in case the cabinet doesn't work. If you're willing to eat the shipping cost then that's not an issue. You could buy locally and avoid this, but you won't get near the performance for the price.

The HSU would still be my recommendation since the cabinets aren't far enough apart to get the biggest benefits of dual subs. Since they're so close together, you're basically doubling the output, which you can do with a bigger/better single sub. It's a tough call though.

OTOH if the SVS is a lot cheaper you'll be able to experiment with less investment up front. Your room is large so I'd double check to make sure it won't get swallowed up.

 

[WallisH]

Hmmm. I see one screen on the door so that space would work. I think you'd need to replace one of the other doors with a similar, acoustically transparent screen if you wanted to do two subs.

I'd recommend getting one sub at first and trying it in both the compartments. If it sounds ok then you're set. If the one with the solid door doesn't work then you'll have to replace that door. Alternatively, you could just take the doors off. That would probably be best from a sound POV. The doors may rattle when the pressure behind them builds up.

I think it would be a good idea to get a sub that could possibly be used in the living space, just in case the cabinet doesn't work. If you're willing to eat the shipping cost then that's not an issue. You could buy locally and avoid this, but you won't get near the performance for the price.

The HSU would still be my recommendation since the cabinets aren't far enough apart to get the biggest benefits of dual subs. Since they're so close together, you're basically doubling the output, which you can do with a bigger/better single sub. It's a tough call though.

OTOH if the SVS is a lot cheaper you'll be able to experiment with less investment up front. Your room is large so I'd double check to make sure it won't get swallowed up.

Thanks. The cabinet on the right also has the same opening as the middle cabinet; we have just temporarily left the original wood in place until we get the sub installed.

I agree with you on starting off with just one. As for buying locally, I really prefer to go with SVS or HSU, and I'd rather run the risk of having to return one of their subs than running the risk of getting an inferior sub elsewhere.

I'd love to get a sub that would look good if I have to set it out, and that makes me wonder about either the HSU or SB13-Plus. The good news is that I have some time to decide. Our house is being remodeled, and we won't be moving back for a few weeks--hopefully by then they will have started rolling out the SB12-NSDs, and I'll have the benefit of early reviews.

I do worry a little about the sound getting lost in the living space, but I also suspect, based on my experience with my original sub, that I don't need as much sound as most of the people on this website to be happy.

So what do you mean when you say I would only be doubling the output? Does that mean that it would get louder, but would not go deeper?

 

[MidnightSensi]

Thanks. The cabinet on the right also has the same opening as the middle cabinet; we have just temporarily left the original wood in place until we get the sub installed.

I agree with you on starting off with just one. As for buying locally, I really prefer to go with SVS or HSU, and I'd rather run the risk of having to return one of their subs than running the risk of getting an inferior sub elsewhere.

I'd love to get a sub that would look good if I have to set it out, and that makes me wonder about either the HSU or SB13-Plus. The good news is that I have some time to decide. Our house is being remodeled, and we won't be moving back for a few weeks--hopefully by then they will have started rolling out the SB12-NSDs, and I'll have the benefit of early reviews.

I do worry a little about the sound getting lost in the living space, but I also suspect, based on my experience with my original sub, that I don't need as much sound as most of the people on this website to be happy.

So what do you mean when you say I would only be doubling the output? Does that mean that it would get louder, but would not go deeper?

Mostly, yes.

Depending on how the subwoofer rolls off, you would get exponentially less increase in output below that point. Ported designs have especially steep roll offs, so, you could be safe in saying that... being practical.... it will get louder but not much deeper.

 

[skers_54]

Thanks. The cabinet on the right also has the same opening as the middle cabinet; we have just temporarily left the original wood in place until we get the sub installed.

I agree with you on starting off with just one. As for buying locally, I really prefer to go with SVS or HSU, and I'd rather run the risk of having to return one of their subs than running the risk of getting an inferior sub elsewhere.

I'd love to get a sub that would look good if I have to set it out, and that makes me wonder about either the HSU or SB13-Plus. The good news is that I have some time to decide. Our house is being remodeled, and we won't be moving back for a few weeks--hopefully by then they will have started rolling out the SB12-NSDs, and I'll have the benefit of early reviews.

I do worry a little about the sound getting lost in the living space, but I also suspect, based on my experience with my original sub, that I don't need as much sound as most of the people on this website to be happy.

So what do you mean when you say I would only be doubling the output? Does that mean that it would get louder, but would not go deeper?

Sensi is spot on. You might get a little deeper since you're looking at sealed subs but I doubt it would be noticable. It would be louder but that's usually better addressed with a more powerful sub.

I think you have a good approach. I would also wait for reviews of the SVS offerings before biting on them. Their veneers are supposed to be pretty good but that's probably the hardest thing to judge about an internet-direct sub. It might be worth the effort of finding someone in your area that will let you examine the aesthetics, especially since you have time. I bet either would look better than the big black box you had though