Need opinions on M&K MPS-5160 dual push-pull subwoofer build?

[Techlord]

Hello everyone,

As you may already know in early 2007 M&K went into bankruptcy and Deep Surplus purchased a sh!t load of M&K stock and now their giving it away for free, living less than 2 miles away I stocked up on some M&K subwoofer cabinets! I walked away with six VX-1250 cabinets in Cherry and Maple wood veeners and many dual subwoofer MPS-5160 cabinets that can be configured two ways pictured below.

The dual subwoofer cabinets can be configured to either install the stock M&K 150 Watt amplifier or any other amplifier for that matter, and I want to make one dual push-pull subwoofer for myself. I plan on running two M&K Super Fast Deep Bass Woofers for my build. I have found three new M&K 150W amplifiers that were part of the MPS-5160 subwoofer, so how should I build the killer M&K dual push-pull subwoofer and what M&K amp should I use? I wish M&K were here to advise me which amplifier to use since I know very little about how dual push-pull subs work! Opinoins wanted!

Regards,
Techlord.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I've got an M&K 5160SF sub. I initially was going to get a "more powerful" sub but after calling the factory and talking with them they convinced me to go with this model. They said it was louder and sounded better than some of the other consumer models they had that had higher wattage ratings. I'm glad I listened to them because it's really nice, loud, and sounds great.

Basically a push pull sub works by one woofer (the bottom one here) firing up into the cabinet and the other woofer firing out of the cabinet. This helps to smooth out low end response. I really know little about sub design or building, just what I've read. That said, from what I understand you really want to make sure you get woofers and an amp designed to work with each other and the cabinet they're going in. Don't just slap anything together.

 

[Techlord]

I've got an M&K 5160SF sub. I initially was going to get a "more powerful" sub but after calling the factory and talking with them they convinced me to go with this model. They said it was louder and sounded better than some of the other consumer models they had that had higher wattage ratings. I'm glad I listened to them because it's really nice, loud, and sounds great.

Basically a push pull sub works by one woofer (the bottom one here) firing up into the cabinet and the other woofer firing out of the cabinet. This helps to smooth out low end response. I really know little about sub design or building, just what I've read. That said, from what I understand you really want to make sure you get woofers and an amp designed to work with each other and the cabinet they're going in. Don't just slap anything together.

I recall a 2008 post where M&K told you the M&K 5160SF was better than the mighty MX350, how can that be? What amplifier and woofer are you using with your M&K 5160SF? Also does the amplifier only need one pair of cables (red & black) to connect two woofers with one in phase and one not? Do you know how much a M&K 5160SF went for?

Thanks,
Techlord.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I recall a 2008 post where M&K told you the M&K 5160SF was better than the mighty MX350, how can that be? What amplifier and woofer are you using with your M&K 5160SF? Also does the amplifier only need one pair of cables (red & black) to connect two woofers with one in phase and one not? Do you know how much a M&K 5160SF went for?

Thanks,
Techlord.

M&K recommended I get the 5160 instead of the MX350, I don't recall using the word "better." IIRC, when I called them they said the newer design with their latest drivers and amp would give me good output and was smoother. I do recall them using the weights of the two units in their reasoning. The MX350 weighs in at ~80#, the 5160 weighs in at ~120#. This difference was due to an improved cabinet design and much bigger magnets on the newer drivers. They also said the newer woofers output more spl per watt than the older ones which made the smaller amp seem larger than it is. They really recommended the 5360 but it was out of my price range.

Due to it's size and where it's located at the moment it would be a bit of a pain to pull the amp or woofers out to get the model numbers on them. IIRC, the msrp for the 5160SF was $2500. This model was from their professional line marketed to studios, not the commercial line marketed for home theater. The two woofers are connected internally, this subwoofer connects to your system like any other sub, via sub cable from you AVR.

Here is a link I found to the user manual. It may help.

 

[Techlord]

M&K recommended I get the 5160 instead of the MX350, I don't recall using the word "better." IIRC, when I called them they said the newer design with their latest drivers and amp would give me good output and was smoother. I do recall them using the weights of the two units in their reasoning. The MX350 weighs in at ~80#, the 5160 weighs in at ~120#. This difference was due to an improved cabinet design and much bigger magnets on the newer drivers. They also said the newer woofers output more spl per watt than the older ones which made the smaller amp seem larger than it is. They really recommended the 5360 but it was out of my price range.

Due to it's size and where it's located at the moment it would be a bit of a pain to pull the amp or woofers out to get the model numbers on them. IIRC, the msrp for the 5160SF was $2500. This model was from their professional line marketed to studios, not the commercial line marketed for home theater. The two woofers are connected internally, this subwoofer connects to your system like any other sub, via sub cable from you AVR.

Here is a link I found to the user manual. It may help.

M&K/MK Sound surely doesn't make those woofers any longer, but I would love to get my hands on one of those 5160SF amplifiers! What happened to M&K's professional line when M&K went belly up?

Thanks,
Techlord.

 

[Jack Hammer]

M&K/MK Sound surely doesn't make those woofers any longer, but I would love to get my hands on one of those 5160SF amplifiers! What happened to M&K's professional line when M&K went belly up?

Thanks,
Techlord.

All their US divisions were housed in the same location and they closed all their operations at the same time. The professional inventory was auctioned off along with all the other inventory as part of the bankruptcy. That is how the cabinets and other components you found came to be for sale. You said you already found the amp for that sub, the woofers were not made by M&K so they may be available from another source, including the new M&K. Again, I really know next to nothing about sub/speaker building, there may be other electronics inside you'd need (or not??). You may consider starting a new and more generic thread in the subs forum along the lines of "help me build my own sub" or the like. Then you can list what parts you have and what you want use and others may offer better help than I'm able. I'll see if I can find out what woofer is in my sub for you.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I don't know if it's the same one or not but the amp on my sub looks identical to this one you posted.

 

[Techlord]

I don't know if it's the same one or not but the amp on my sub looks identical to this one you posted.

When you say identical do you mean somewhat look a like or a 100% look a like? That M&K 150W amplifier in the picture you posted looks nothing like the amplifier that's in the PDF manual you provided for the MPS-5160 model, the amplifier in the PDF manual is all black and a little longer and has balanced inputs/outputs. I wonder if that 150W amplifier (pictured) has enough current to power two 8 ohm woofers if I went in that direction...?

Thanks,
Techlord.

 

[Jack Hammer]

The balanced inputs were optional, I didn't get them. I just looked at the drawing in the manual and it does look quite different. The one I've got is what I recall being shown on their website and it looks to me to be about 100% like the one in your picture. Maybe I'll post a picture of it over the weekend.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Don't be misled by power claims, M&K always rated their amps extremely conservatively and used continuous power ratings not max/peak. So what they called a 150w amp another company may have called a 600w or higher rated amp. I've got a sub with a 75w amp that'll make the walls and floors shake.

 

[Techlord]

Don't be misled by power claims, M&K always rated their amps extremely conservatively and used continuous power ratings not max/peak. So what they called a 150w amp another company may have called a 600w or higher rated amp. I've got a sub with a 75w amp that'll make the walls and floors shake.

I owned the older M&K V-1250 125W subwoofer which had a ton of power, I couldn't believe the power output that it had! Pictures would be nice if you can get them without to much trouble, I have decided to use the M&K Super Fast Deep Bass woofers being 8 ohms each.

 

[Mark Corrigan]

I recall a 2008 post where M&K told you the M&K 5160SF was better than the mighty MX350, how can that be? What amplifier and woofer are you using with your M&K 5160SF? Also does the amplifier only need one pair of cables (red & black) to connect two woofers with one in phase and one not? Do you know how much a M&K 5160SF went for?

Thanks,
Techlord.

Hi Techlord

I recently emailed Ken Kresiel about the differences between the 5160SF and 350, here is his reply:-

Technically, the MX350MK2 is a better subwoofer, with a better amplifier. The MX350MK2 has a very high performance 350-400 watt amp built by M&K in our USA factory. The MPS-5160 SFBF uses a 150 watt amp designed by M&K but built in China. The larger cabinet of the MPS-5160 reduces the amount of amp power needed. The MPS-5160 comes pretty close to the performance of the MX350 with the same signature M&K sound, so it you were going to run the two subs together, they would match in sound.

Good luck with your build!

 

[Techlord]

Hi Techlord

I recently emailed Ken Kresiel about the differences between the 5160SF and 350, here is his reply:-



Good luck with your build!

I'm not to crazy about things made in China, it seems like 350-400 Watts in this large 5160 cabinet would be over kill. There were two versions of the 150W amp the one with balanced inputs/outputs an one without, the one with the balanced inputs/outputs seems like it has a beefy heat sink, the one without seemed ordinary in design. I believe the amps were different quality if you look at both, it's clear there's a difference.

Thanks for that helpful information,

Techlord.

 

[adwilk]

I think its fairly obvious that you need to pack up all that wonderful stuff and send it to me to figure out. I won't let you down.

Seriously though, looks like some pretty cool gear and obviously the price was pretty good too.. best of luck. We'll need pictures of finished subs...

 

[Jack Hammer]

I owned the older M&K V-1250 125W subwoofer which had a ton of power, I couldn't believe the power output that it had! Pictures would be nice if you can get them without to much trouble, I have decided to use the M&K Super Fast Deep Bass woofers being 8 ohms each.

Here is a pic of the amp. Getting to where I can read the numbers off the woofers involves a lot of work and partial disassembley of the cabinet, so I decided not to go there (at least not unless I come home really hammered one night ).

 

[Techlord]

Here is a pic of the amp. Getting to where I can read the numbers off the woofers involves a lot of work and partial disassembley of the cabinet, so I decided not to go there (at least not unless I come home really hammered one night ).

Thank you Jack Hammer, apart from the 5160SF sticker on the back of the amp they look pretty much the same in function. The acrylic polymer coated cellulose fiber woofers were a special breed and one not spoken of much by M&K fans meaning the were professional only woofers and a rare breed. One question though, does your amp cover up the entire mounting hole or is there something like a steel plate next to your amp? The reason I ask is because the amp in the pictures I provided isn't long enough to cover up the mounting hole for the amp.

Regards,
Techlord.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Thank you Jack Hammer, apart from the 5160SF sticker on the back of the amp they look pretty much the same in function. The acrylic polymer coated cellulose fiber woofers were a special breed and one not spoken of much by M&K fans meaning the were professional only woofers and a rare breed. One question though, does your amp cover up the entire mounting hole or is there something like a steel plate next to your amp? The reason I ask is because the amp in the pictures I provided isn't long enough to cover up the mounting hole for the amp.

Regards,
Techlord.

There is a small plate above the amp itself that takes up about 3" or so. It's where the balanced inputs would have gone if I had got them. You can see this in the picture I am attaching of a 5420's amp section. The woofers from the professional line would have been liquidated along with the regular lines and would say "super fast deep bass" on them just like some of the other newer ones. It's kindof like when you were looking at the drivers and tweeters for your speakers before, many looked almost identical on the outside but the part numbers, description, and magnet sizes showed the differences.

 

[Techlord]

There is a small plate above the amp itself that takes up about 3" or so. It's where the balanced inputs would have gone if I had got them. You can see this in the picture I am attaching of a 5420's amp section. The woofers from the professional line would have been liquidated along with the regular lines and would say "super fast deep bass" on them just like some of the other newer ones. It's kindof like when you were looking at the drivers and tweeters for your speakers before, many looked almost identical on the outside but the part numbers, description, and magnet sizes showed the differences.

Boy I wish I could get my hands on one of those amps with the balanced inputs/outputs, that amp looks very special! I imagined that yours might very well have some sort of plate covering up the very end, I have the plate that would be needed to cover up the opened area if I install the same amp you have. I'm wondering if tha amps power has anything to do with the size of the sub cabinets, my guess is the larger the cabinet the less wattage required. That's just a guess though.