Frustrated with Behringer but still eyeing the EP 2500

[Codifus]

Hello all,

this is my 1st post in this forum but I've been lurking for about a month now. What brought me to this forum was a google search for a budget amp. There's been lots of hype about the Behringer A500...cheap power yadda yadda.

Fast foward to now. I've gone thru 2 A500s. Both quickly suffered from the piano solo distortion of death

Doing more research I found that Behringer has had a reputation of copying other products. I decided to try the unit they were copying. I now have the Alesis RA500. It's beefy. Interestingly, the Behringer A500 is about half the size of the Alesis RA500, yet they are both rated at the same power. Because of the Behringer's size and the amount of heat it put out when I was using it, I'm starting to believe that the design flaw with the unit may simply be bad heat dissipation. My 2nd Beh A500 lasted about 3 days (i left it on constantly playing music at above conversation level but not full tilt so as to break it in and expose any flaws within the return period) before the piano solos went south.

Oh, and I'm not driving a difficult load. My speakers are the Cambridge Soundworks Tower IIs. 8 ohms. Bi-wiring. 2 channel, that's it.

Anyhow, I digress. So I have the Alesis RA500 now and it is underwhelming, to say the least. Power? Plenty. Quiet? Quieter than the Beh A500. Still, the music sounds lifeless when playing thru the Alesis. Every time I sit down to chill with some tunes, I find myself getting up and walking away 30 minutes later.

The Behringer A500s I had, when they worked properly did sound quite sweet. And power? When things got enthusiastic, my Tower IIs were worked harder then they've ever been worked, to within an inch of their full dual-8-inch-ported-woofers excursions. Bass sounded so good, and strong. I really really wish the Beh A500 worked reliably.


The heart of my original system is a Beresford TC-7520 DAC and a Yamaha AX-596 integrated amp. This Yamaha unit has the ability to separate to a power amp and a pre-amp. Since My Beresford has a volume control I tried it and fell in love with my system all over again. The inner detail revealed was amazing. I could not go back to the integrated setup. This revelation of inner detail is part of what got me hungry for more power.

So here I am, I've gone thru 2 Beh A500s, I'm not satified with the Alesis RA500, and will probably return it within a week if its sound doen't improve.

Should I get the EP2500? Does it have a good sound like its little brother A500? I would be using strictly for my 2 channel setup.

I was put off the EP 2500 because;

1. The fan, but I can do the fan mod
2. I would also have to get the S converter to convert the rca outputs of my Beresford.
3. Way more power than I will ever, ever need. Knowing me I'll probably finally blow my tower IIs with this beast. If it sounds good, they will die happy, at least.
4. The EP2500 looks too much like a professional amplifier. I know, that's what it IS. What I mean is that with the Beh A500, also a pro amp, I felt I got lucky with a pro amp that is sophisticated enough to reproduce the subtley in consumer level environments. Basically power and 3 dimensionality in the soundstage, like my Yamaha. I'm worried that the pro levelness of its design will have it such that it doesn't handle subtlety well.
5. I've seen that several users are using the EP 2500 are using it to drive their subwoofer. I would like to hope that it is because of its power, not because it may not sound good enough to drive mids and tweeters with delicacy and precision.

What say you guys? I'm getting really tired of this buy-an-amp, try-an-amp, return-an-amp runaround. I just want to sit down and enjoy my music, with more power. My Yamaha AX-596 keeps coming back into the mix. It's fine, sounds wonderful. I just need more power.

Thanks

 

[WmAx]

You have already developed a bias against Behringer, so I don't know if it's in your best interest to continue along this route unless you do some blind testing of the Ep2500, RA500 and other SS amps, being sure to have levels within 0.1dB of each other. This kind of testing will give you a refreshed perception of what is really relevant to sound.

I had a couple of those defective A500 units myself. I also have an Ep2500 and several other Behringer products that are extremely high quality/performance.

Since this is for main speakers, also consider, for about $100 more, the Yamaha P2500S. It has no fan noise to require mod like the EP2500, and it is historically a very reliable amp series for pro use (where it is abused and used in horrible environments). This should give you what you really want for a main speaker amp. It has an honest 250 watts at 8 Ohms, both channels driven, from 20Hz-20,000Hz. Most amps don't even use this rating, but instead, the 1kHz rating. The P2500S is a 275 watt per channel amp at 8 Ohms if you want to go by that standard. Build quality/design is very high. This is the kind of amp that you end up with and never want to let go of. I have had many amps, high end, pro, etc.; this is my truly my favorite because of what you get for the $$ and it's overall performance and quality. I used to be an audiophile to the full meaning of the current breed - but after I started using properly set up blinded testing I realized that I was fooling myself - and since then I just don't have any particular respect or expectation for 'high end' brand name stuff. The only 'expectation' I have now is that to get a comparable performance amp to the P2500S from a high end brand, you would have to spend at least $1500-$2000. Total wasted money unless you are in it just for the cosmetics, and I admit, many high end units are very pretty.

-Chris

Hello all,

this is my 1st post in this forum but I've been lurking for about a month now. What brought me to this forum was a google search for a budget amp. There's been lots of hype about the Behringer A500...cheap power yadda yadda.

Fast foward to now. I've gone thru 2 A500s. Both quickly suffered from the piano solo distortion of death

Doing more research I found that Behringer has had a reputation of copying other products. I decided to try the unit they were copying. I now have the Alesis RA500. It's beefy. Interestingly, the Behringer A500 is about half the size of the Alesis RA500, yet they are both rated at the same power. Because of the Behringer's size and the amount of heat it put out when I was using it, I'm starting to believe that the design flaw with the unit may simply be bad heat dissipation. My 2nd Beh A500 lasted about 3 days (i left it on constantly playing music at above conversation level but not full tilt so as to break it in and expose any flaws within the return period) before the piano solos went south.

Oh, and I'm not driving a difficult load. My speakers are the Cambridge Soundworks Tower IIs. 8 ohms. Bi-wiring. 2 channel, that's it.

Anyhow, I digress. So I have the Alesis RA500 now and it is underwhelming, to say the least. Power? Plenty. Quiet? Quieter than the Beh A500. Still, the music sounds lifeless when playing thru the Alesis. Every time I sit down to chill with some tunes, I find myself getting up and walking away 30 minutes later.

The Behringer A500s I had, when they worked properly did sound quite sweet. And power? When things got enthusiastic, my Tower IIs were worked harder then they've ever been worked, to within an inch of their full dual-8-inch-ported-woofers excursions. Bass sounded so good, and strong. I really really wish the Beh A500 worked reliably.


The heart of my original system is a Beresford TC-7520 DAC and a Yamaha AX-596 integrated amp. This Yamaha unit has the ability to separate to a power amp and a pre-amp. Since My Beresford has a volume control I tried it and fell in love with my system all over again. The inner detail revealed was amazing. I could not go back to the integrated setup. This revelation of inner detail is part of what got me hungry for more power.

So here I am, I've gone thru 2 Beh A500s, I'm not satified with the Alesis RA500, and will probably return it within a week if its sound doen't improve.

Should I get the EP2500? Does it have a good sound like its little brother A500? I would be using strictly for my 2 channel setup.

I was put off the EP 2500 because;

1. The fan, but I can do the fan mod
2. I would also have to get the S converter to convert the rca outputs of my Beresford.
3. Way more power than I will ever, ever need. Knowing me I'll probably finally blow my tower IIs with this beast. If it sounds good, they will die happy, at least.
4. The EP2500 looks too much like a professional amplifier. I know, that's what it IS. What I mean is that with the Beh A500, also a pro amp, I felt I got lucky with a pro amp that is sophisticated enough to reproduce the subtley in consumer level environments. Basically power and 3 dimensionality in the soundstage, like my Yamaha. I'm worried that the pro levelness of its design will have it such that it doesn't handle subtlety well.
5. I've seen that several users are using the EP 2500 are using it to drive their subwoofer. I would like to hope that it is because of its power, not because it may not sound good enough to drive mids and tweeters with delicacy and precision.

What say you guys? I'm getting really tired of this buy-an-amp, try-an-amp, return-an-amp runaround. I just want to sit down and enjoy my music, with more power. My Yamaha AX-596 keeps coming back into the mix. It's fine, sounds wonderful. I just need more power.

Thanks

 

[highfigh]

Behringer must have had a bad run because I put an A500 in a bar/restaurant last year and they have a bartender who cranks the snot out of it. Not a single problem of any kind.

Why people need to put their amplifiers so close to their listening position that they can hear the fan is beyond me. Sure, some houses just aren't conducive to hiding it or putting it in a basement but the speaker run is just not going to hurt the sound unless it's excessively long.

 

[Seth=L]

Behringer must have had a bad run because I put an A500 in a bar/restaurant last year and they have a bartender who cranks the snot out of it. Not a single problem of any kind.

Why people need to put their amplifiers so close to their listening position that they can hear the fan is beyond me. Sure, some houses just aren't conducive to hiding it or putting it in a basement but the speaker run is just not going to hurt the sound unless it's excessively long.

I guess it just depends on what day it is.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Behringer must have had a bad run because I put an A500 in a bar/restaurant last year and they have a bartender who cranks the snot out of it. Not a single problem of any kind.

I currently have 5 of them. I have not had any issues with the five I have. I had one that had to be replaced because of a bad rheostat. I sold that one a while back, but the guy I sold it to still uses it for his two channel system.

 

[Shock]

I just watched a video on youtube about some faulty behringer equipment, including the A500. They seemed to have significant harmonic distortion when the gain control was set in the 60-80% setting. However running it at full proved to reduce the distortion to very miniscule numbers. Seems like there was a design flaw with the A500's and this happened on all of them. Although the video was from 2008 so I would assume they would have worked out that problem by now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWj5CUl7rio is the first part.

 

[TLS Guy]

I just watched a video on youtube about some faulty behringer equipment, including the A500. They seemed to have significant harmonic distortion when the gain control was set in the 60-80% setting. However running it at full proved to reduce the distortion to very miniscule numbers. Seems like there was a design flaw with the A500's and this happened on all of them. Although the video was from 2008 so I would assume they would have worked out that problem by now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWj5CUl7rio is the first part.

Interesting. That is a common problem with poorly designed class AB amps, that is often missed in reviews.

 

[WmAx]

I had two defective A500. The high frequency distortion problem occured at all gain settings on the piano solo test. I know of people with units that don't have this problem, and others that do.

-Chris

 

[Shock]

I had two defective A500. The high frequency distortion problem occured at all gain settings on the piano solo test. I know of people with units that don't have this problem, and others that do.

-Chris

Seems like that's a pretty big QA department oversight.

 

[mike c]

3 out of my 4 had the distortion thing.

the 3 were bought at the same time, so i guess QC went down after i bought my first one OR it's a hit or miss.

 

[WmAx]

Seems like that's a pretty big QA department oversight.

Oddly, it has never been reported in any other Behringer amplifier model. It's a defect exclusive to this particular model.

-Chris

 

[Codifus]

Oddly, it has never been reported in any other Behringer amplifier model. It's a defect exclusive to this particular model.

-Chris

Thanks Chris, and everyone for the replies.

I think I may give the EP 2500 a go. The price differential from the ep 2500 to the Yamaha is $150 from what I've found on the net.

Also, with both the Yamaha and EP 2500 I have to get the Samson S-convert thingy because neither of those amps have an RCA input. I was really trying to avoid that....that's why I got the Beh A500 and then Alesis RA500. I wanted to connect my DAC directly to the amp. Oh well, I guess I need to upgrade my DAC at some point in the future to one that has XLR outputs.


Thanks

CD

 

[WmAx]

Thanks Chris, and everyone for the replies.

I think I may give the EP 2500 a go. The price differential from the ep 2500 to the Yamaha is $150 from what I've found on the net.

Also, with both the Yamaha and EP 2500 I have to get the Samson S-convert thingy because neither of those amps have an RCA input. I was really trying to avoid that....that's why I got the Beh A500 and then Alesis RA500. I wanted to connect my DAC directly to the amp. Oh well, I guess I need to upgrade my DAC at some point in the future to one that has XLR outputs.


Thanks

CD

What is the VRMS output of your DAC? Some RCA outs can be used directly to a pro amp; it just depends. Most will not be optimal, but some will be.

-Chris

 

[Codifus]

What is the VRMS output of your DAC? Some RCA outs can be used directly to a pro amp; it just depends. Most will not be optimal, but some will be.

-Chris

I don't know what it is, but it is low. When I had the Beh A500s, I connected my DAC using the RCA and the 1/4 inputs. While the DAC worked with both inputs, it drove the amp much harder using the RCA inputs. Using the RCAs I could get to max output with the volume at 12 oclock. With the 1/4 inputs I had to turn the volume to 3 or 4 oclock, end even then it sounded as if I wasnt pushing the amp....less dynamic.

CD

 

[highfigh]

I don't know what it is, but it is low. When I had the Beh A500s, I connected my DAC using the RCA and the 1/4 inputs. While the DAC worked with both inputs, it drove the amp much harder using the RCA inputs. Using the RCAs I could get to max output with the volume at 12 oclock. With the 1/4 inputs I had to turn the volume to 3 or 4 oclock, end even then it sounded as if I wasnt pushing the amp....less dynamic.

CD

The balanced inputs are at -10dB and the unbalanced are at +4dB, according to the manual.

 

[Codifus]

The balanced inputs are at -10dB and the unbalanced are at +4dB, according to the manual.

You mean the other way around, right?

CD

 

[Codifus]

I found a Behringer EP 2000 for $240 plus shipping. The 2000 apparently is really a slightly updated EP 1500. All these power amps are way more power than I need, and hopefully/probably, the Ep2000 has the same reliability as the 2500.

I hope that the fan mod is do-able on this unit as well. The EP 1500/2000/2500/4000 all seem to be housed in the same casing.

Thanks

CD