Another TECHNICS Possibility...

[PearlcorderS701]

I realize I've been advised to consider the SL-1200MK2 turntable for the 2-channel system I'm planning, but I stumbled across this discontinued model of which there are several vendors still keeping it in stock:

http://www.electronics.goolian.com/index.php?case=product&proddb=3&pid=9495

Could this be a viable alternative to the 1200, if I don't want to pay the $500+ or have the hassles that come along with setting up the tonearm balance, anti-skating plus cart installation, etc on a manual/pro model like the SL-1200?

This looks like a decent table, with belt drive and auto-return, not to mention the cart pre-installed and the arm factory balanced...what are your thoughts?

Also...I realize they don't have any current "consumer" level turntables, but did Technics make a model since this SL-BD20D, or after, it? Would this model be considered the "last relevant" consumer table they made?

 

[Hbcueducated]

I think the SL-BD20D may be the last of the consumer line of TTs made/offered by Technics. I have two of its predecessors the SL-D1 and SL-D2 and both work like they did the first day I took them out of the box over 25 years ago. I've upgraded the cartridges that came with them, but otherwise everything else is original.

If the construction of the SL-BD20D is similar or better than my D1 and D2, then you can look forward to many, many hours of listening to vinyl.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I think the SL-BD20D may be the last of the consumer line of TTs made/offered by Technics. I have two of its predecessors the SL-D1 and SL-D2 and both work like they did the first day I took them out of the box over 25 years ago. I've upgraded the cartridges that came with them, but otherwise everything else is original.

If the construction of the SL-BD20D is similar or better than my D1 and D2, then you can look forward to many, many hours of listening to vinyl.

Thanks a lot for your input here!

I thought this may have been the last of the consumer tables made by them; can you give me a link to those D1 and D2 models you mentioned that you had?

Do you think these semi-auto models, like the 20D, should perform at least decently compared to the SL-1200 pro models?

 

[Seth=L]

That table does not compare to the SL-1200, at all. It's a cheap belt driven table. You are comparing a table that had a suggested retail of $169 and is made of cheap plastic with a little DC motor running a belt to a state of the art direct drive table.

The pre-installed cart is going to be low grade, plain and simple.

I still can't figure out why you are so troubled by installing a cart and making minor adjustments to the tonearm. News for you; the stylus won't last forever, and on a cheap cart the whole thing will need replaced sooner than not. You'd be delaying the inevitable. Those additional adjustments on the SL-1200 are to the advantage of the user, they aren't there to hinder playback quality.

 

[Hbcueducated]

Every now and again, you can find one of those models on EBay for around $100. From a performance aspect, I don't think anything compares to the 1200s. They are truly outstanding.

Here are a few links that I dug up:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-92088.html

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=122584

http://turntablesforsale.org/technics-sl-d2-turntable/

http://us-audio.gear-online-shop.com/technics+turntable/p2

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/technics_sl1200_e.html (briefly mentioned here as the focus is on the 1200, which is gold standard of turntables today)

Of course, you always have to exercise caution when buying used equipment. I have not purchased from any of these sites and provide this solely for informational purposes.

Good luck!

 

[WmAx]

I recommend against it. First, it uses a P-Mount system; few good carts come in this format. A huge strike right off the bat. I don't think this uses the same cabinet/table quality as the SL-1200 units either.

If you want to save a bunch of money and have comprable 1200 performance, look at for used/mint condition Technics SL-Q2 or SL-Q3. $80-$110 should get a near mint condition unit. Has cast aluminum chassis and similar high quality motor/main bearing system and same main arm system as the SL-1200MKII and above. As an addition, they also have auto-return when the record ends, unlike the SL-1200MKII and above. However, you can not change out the arm easily as you can with the SL-1200 units.

-Chris

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Every now and again, you can find one of those models on EBay for around $100. From a performance aspect, I don't think anything compares to the 1200s. They are truly outstanding.

Here are a few links that I dug up:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-92088.html

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=122584

http://turntablesforsale.org/technics-sl-d2-turntable/

http://us-audio.gear-online-shop.com/technics+turntable/p2

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/technics_sl1200_e.html (briefly mentioned here as the focus is on the 1200, which is gold standard of turntables today)

Of course, you always have to exercise caution when buying used equipment. I have not purchased from any of these sites and provide this solely for informational purposes.

Good luck!

Thanks for those links, 'HB!

Wow; it seems like there are quite a few audiophiles out there on the forums that liked this table. It seems like everyone else is poo-poohing this, what they call, "piece of plastic" in this thread and my other, but it seems those who scored this table and wrote about it in those threads were more than happy with it, given the price.

I realize this isn't in the class of a 1200, but what intrigued me was the fact that it was one of the last "consumer" grade decks made by Technics (meaning, something outside of their 1200 line) and it was semi-automatic, which is appealing to me for various reasons. I understand the 1200's are completely manual and are also direct-drive (are they still using the Quartz system?) but something about the BD20 intrigued me now that my budget has shrunk.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I recommend against it. First, it uses a P-Mount system; few good carts come in this format. A huge strike right off the bat. I don't think this uses the same cabinet/table quality as the SL-1200 units either.

No, I would say they definitely don't use the same quality table and cabinet as the 1200's; this is reflected in the price, and is kind of a given.

If you want to save a bunch of money and have comprable 1200 performance, look at for used/mint condition Technics SL-Q2 or SL-Q3. $80-$110 should get a near mint condition unit. Has cast aluminum chassis and similar high quality motor/main bearing system and same main arm system as the SL-1200MKII and above. As an addition, they also have auto-return when the record ends, unlike the SL-1200MKII and above. However, you can not change out the arm easily as you can with the SL-1200 units.

-Chris

Thanks; I'll research those models you mention here -- especially because they have an auto return feature. Is there a certain site you recommend that may carry these?

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Thanks For All the Input, Guys.

Seems like the camp is split here, with just one member saying that I would enjoy listening to hours of vinyl with the cheaper SL-BD20 -- I'm kinda torn now, as I really want an SL-1200, but wouldn't be able to afford one as of now unless it was used. Additionally, I'd like to get something that had a cart already attached and the tonearm was calibrated/weighted and ready to go.

I may have to start looking at the used tables Chris mentioned, as well as for second hand 1200's.

 

[Seth=L]

Additionally, I'd like to get something that had a cart already attached and the tonearm was calibrated/weighted and ready to go.

Ok, I will just ask you directly.

Why?

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Ok, I will just ask you directly.

Why?

I just have my own personal reasons -- I am simply not as "inclined", technically, as most of you are on this site. I really don't know how to put it in any simpler terms. It would just make things much easier for me.

In retrospect, perhaps this was the wrong forum for me to be posting in because it appears just about every member on here is extremely "hands on" and extremely advanced with regard to the science of loudspeakers, acoustic design, the seriousness of purpose, etc. and I'm just not quite there yet.

Forgive me, people.

 

[WmAx]

No, I would say they definitely don't use the same quality table and cabinet as the 1200's; this is reflected in the price, and is kind of a given.



Thanks; I'll research those models you mention here -- especially because they have an auto return feature. Is there a certain site you recommend that may carry these?

Ebay. Hey, if it will help, you can by the SL-Q2 or SL-Q3 an have it and the cartridge directly shipped to me. I will install the cartridge, etc.; and ship it to you. All you will have to do is slip the platter on (it just sits right down into the spindle), put a record on and press 'ON'.

I'll charge you $25 flat + actual shipping.

If interested, I'll specify an eBay auction that appears to have a mint quality unit, and I'll give you text to instruct the seller to pack the unit safely for shipping. Most sellers do not know how to safely pack a table for shipping, and many get damaged as a result. However, if you instruct a seller as a condition of purchase to pack as you instruct, the table will be fine. This is what I have done many times in the past and have not had a problem.

A SL-Q2 or Q3 + Denon cartridge + shipping + $25 labor will come to a grand total of about $325-$400.

NOTICE: Here is one being sold as new-like condition with original packaging:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-SL-Q3-Direct-Drive-Automatic-Turntable-System_W0QQitemZ360244478742QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53e03e8316

-Chris

 

[Seth=L]

I just have my own personal reasons -- I am simply not as "inclined", technically, as most of you are on this site. I really don't know how to put it in any simpler terms. It would just make things much easier for me.

In retrospect, perhaps this was the wrong forum for me to be posting in because it appears just about every member on here is extremely "hands on" and extremely advanced with regard to the science of loudspeakers, acoustic design, the seriousness of purpose, etc. and I'm just not quite there yet.

Forgive me, people.

I guess this is where I am confused, what's technical about putting on a cartridge? I think you are making it out to be much more difficult than it really is.

I'm not an expert in any particular technical field, not by a long shot. I don't have years and years of packed knowledge on turntables, what I know I've learned in a short space of time and at my leisure. I'd compare the level of difficulty of putting the cartridge on the headshell and calibrating the tonearm to be roughly as technically involved as hooking up a home theater, it's mostly common sense stuff.

I'm not saying this to be rude or make you feel like you might be below the norm of capacity for this sort of thing, I most definitely think you are capable of handling something as simple as setting up a turntable. If it will give you some ease I can try to illustrate certain aspects to give you a better idea of how much more simplistic this is than I believe you think it to be.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Ebay. Hey, if it will help, you can by the SL-Q2 or SL-Q3 an have it and the cartridge directly shipped to me. I will install the cartridge, etc.; and ship it to you. All you will have to do is slip the platter on (it just sits right down into the spindle), put a record on and press 'ON'.

I'll charge you $25 flat + actual shipping.

If interested, I'll specify an eBay auction that appears to have a mint quality unit, and I'll give you text to instruct the seller to pack the unit safely for shipping. Most sellers do not know how to safely pack a table for shipping, and many get damaged as a result. However, if you instruct a seller as a condition of purchase to pack as you instruct, the table will be fine. This is what I have done many times in the past and have not had a problem.

A SL-Q2 or Q3 + Denon cartridge + shipping + $25 labor will come to a grand total of about $325-$400.

NOTICE: Here is one being sold as new-like condition with original packaging:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-SL-Q3-Direct-Drive-Automatic-Turntable-System_W0QQitemZ360244478742QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53e03e8316

-Chris

Thanks a lot, Chris. I appreciate this very much.

Let me consider this and get back to you; I really do want a Technics table, and would love the 1200, but there are just so many things that are kind of pulling me back in and making me resist...the seriousness of purpose because it has evolved into a DJ table, the features I'll never use (for home audiophile purpose) such as the pitch control and strobe indication for calibration, the outrageously high prices for these decks new, the lack of auto-return, the fact that they need to be weighted and calibrated out of the box, the need for an outboard cart (not included)...

I love the way these tables look, though, and I can imagine one sitting at the perch of my Bell'O Audio Tower looking awesome; I've been looking at them used on Ebay, but many of them don't look like they're in that great of condition and some sellers even admit to this. For near $300 prices, I might as well buy a new 1200.

It may actually be kind of cool to have a vintage table in the two channel system I am upgrading and building; the ones we are discussing above are intriguing because of their auto return feature, something I'd like. I'm just not sure which way I want to go yet.

I appreciate the offer you made here -- the only thing is, it seems like a lot of back-and-forth shipping and such; I will consider it though. Thanks again.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I guess this is where I am confused, what's technical about putting on a cartridge? I think you are making it out to be much more difficult than it really is.

Don't the Technics 1200s' s-shaped arms need carts that require to be screwed into the headshell, and then wired to the arm? It's been a LONG time since I've run one of these, and I recall them being very difficult to get started.

As for plug-in P-mount types, those I can handle.

I'm not an expert in any particular technical field, not by a long shot. I don't have years and years of packed knowledge on turntables, what I know I've learned in a short space of time and at my leisure. I'd compare the level of difficulty of putting the cartridge on the headshell and calibrating the tonearm to be roughly as technically involved as hooking up a home theater, it's mostly common sense stuff.

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that it's mostly "common sense stuff" -- especially for a beginner in home theater. This is what I meant by the fact that most of you guys are obviously more technically inclined than the average person; I know for a fact that what you call "common sense" in HT is very daunting and confusing to a first-time HT operator...the calibration of speakers, the placement of speakers, understanding the surround codecs and their channels...the placement of the subwoofer and how it connects with the other channels...the calibration of a display, etc. etc.

I'm not saying that I am in that category of HT enthusiast because I am not (I've graduated beyond that!) -- but with regard to setting up a beast of a table such as an SL-1200, it would seem intimidating to me.

I'm not saying this to be rude or make you feel like you might be below the norm of capacity for this sort of thing, I most definitely think you are capable of handling something as simple as setting up a turntable. If it will give you some ease I can try to illustrate certain aspects to give you a better idea of how much more simplistic this is than I believe you think it to be.

That's very kind, and thank you.

 

[Seth=L]

When I said setting up a home theater I was refering to making connections (which is common sense, everything is labled. I'm sorry, it's late and I'm very tired so I may not form completely coherent posts.

The SL-1200 does use a P-mount, so installation of the cartridge is simple. The Sonys I mentioned are P-mounts as well. This allows you to put whatever headshell on it that you want if you don't like the stock one as well. For now I'm sure you'll be fine with the stock headshell if you go with the Denon DL-110 cartridge. The most wiring you'll be doing is pushing those tiny spades on to the cartridge's color coded pins (simple enough).

I've never had to mess with anti-skating honestly. I've messed with the counterweight of course, gotta dial in that comfortable operating range to make sure the needle doesn't skip track.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

When I said setting up a home theater I was refering to making connections (which is common sense, everything is labled. I'm sorry, it's late and I'm very tired so I may not form completely coherent posts.

I understand; it's late here too and I have to board a plane early in the morning for a business trip! (It's around 2 AM over here...)

The SL-1200 does use a P-mount, so installation of the cartridge is simple. The Sonys I mentioned are P-mounts as well. This allows you to put whatever headshell on it that you want if you don't like the stock one as well. For now I'm sure you'll be fine with the stock headshell if you go with the Denon DL-110 cartridge. The most wiring you'll be doing is pushing those tiny spades on to the cartridge's color coded pins (simple enough).

Gotcha. But I was under the impression that the 1200's did NOT use a P-mount, but rather a standard mount...was I wrong?

I've never had to mess with anti-skating honestly. I've messed with the counterweight of course, gotta dial in that comfortable operating range to make sure the needle doesn't skip track.

Is the anti skate pretty much set by the factory when it arrives?

 

[Seth=L]

Gotcha. But I was under the impression that the 1200's did NOT use a P-mount, but rather a standard mount...was I wrong?

As much as I hate to say you were. I own one, I oughta know. It's a pretty easy machine to operate and maintain. Edit: I'm also an idiot, I guess it's not a p-mount, I guess I had no idea what the hell a p-mount was. DERP!

Let me rephrase what I said about anti-skating. I've messed with it and noticed no change in sound or playback. I'm not saying it doesn't do anything, just that I didn't notice a change in my use of the feature.

 

[WmAx]

The 1200 does not have a P-Mount. I believe you can buy an optional headshell that accepts P-Mount, however, but I'm not sure.

As for 1200's being very costly? Are you serious? That is a low price for such a device. For the same price, you just get a slab of painted MDF from most other brands.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

I appreciate the offer you made here -- the only thing is, it seems like a lot of back-and-forth shipping and such; I will consider it though. Thanks again.

I gave you a total end cost. Which will be much lower than a SL-1200 total end cost. You will spend around $800 at least, after getting a Sl-1200 + cartridge + shipping.

I make the above offer only to help you out - the $25 'labor' certainly is not profit for me considering it will take me probably 2 or more total hours at least to unpack, set up/calibrate and re-pack + taking the package to a shipping center + gas driving to the shipment center.

-Chris