New Projecter person. some questions

[adamsrobw]

Hello. my very expensive plasma tv is broken. I figure now is the time to upgrade to a projector.

I'm looking at the Panasonic AE4000.

my room length is 19' 9"
width is 11' 8"

After looking at a calculator i think i can get away with a 120" 16x9 screen.

My question is, how far away should the projector be mounted on the ceiling?

Here are the factors:

There is 1 basement window on the wall furthest from the screen. its like 2 feet wide, 1 foot tall. its small. walls are dark red, matte.

The wife doesn't want to watch tv for the rest of her life in a pitch black room. (this is probably the most important factor to consider)

This projector touts that it can do a 120" screen from only about 11 feet away. If i were to mount it that close, would it mean that much more brightness to counter any low ambient lighting in the room? say a few reading lights?

Are there drawbacks to mounting it that close as compared to say 16 foot back that the calculator recommends?

The other benefit of mounting it that close is that its a straight shot above the ceiling sideways to where the components will be. If its mounted back further ill need to drill sideways through floor supports which means more drywall repair. which means more unhappy wife.

Any and all opinions are welcome.

thanks!

Rob

 

[chadburger]

Closer is best for brightest image possible and you will be able to have a couple lamps on with ease, directional lamps are nice for reading with a Projector so you can focus the beam over head (like a snake lamp with a dimmer is what I use with 5 heads.....$70 at Home Depot)
The further away a Projector is the more the output drops off.

 

[jostenmeat]

Closer is brighter, but farther gets you more contrast. I opt for farther, but my room is pretty dark, but in your case it seems closer is better for brightness as well as ease. However, it is normally not recommended to use max settings, whether shift, zoom, etc, as you may limit the performance of the PJ.

I would consider a couple of possibilities. If you have the money, and it would cost a lot indeed, you can have a flat panel on the wall for ambient lighting, and a tab tensioned screen for lights off movies.

Or, perhaps, you can have two screens. You can consider a Dalite High Power pulldown screen, which is very affordable, to pull down over a fixed frame screen. Use the fixed frame for lights off movies, and the High Power for ambient lighting conditions. My guess-timate would be about $300 for 120".

The way the HP works is that it reflects light right back where it came from. So, in one sense, because the window is behind you, you will suffer just as much, most likely. Where the HP is excellent is with rejecting OFF-axis lighting.

When you have lights on in the room, keep them as far as comfortable from the screen itself.

You will never get the most out of your PQ with ambient lighting, however. Contrast is reduced exponentially with increased ambient lighting.

TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THE HP SCREEN, you will to have the PJ at the same angle as yourself, to screen, which usually means to have the PJ as close to the same height as your eyes. Doesn't matter how far in front, or way behind you, the closer the angle the better. Naturally, as ceiling mounted, the farther you mount the PJ, the closer the angle will be with your eyes to screen, which is what is desired.

The HP idea, as a retroreflector, works like THIS.

Normally, screens work like THIS.

 

[just-some-guy]

i have a 120" HP 2.8 in that size room. its pretty nice. but i wouldn't watch basic tv on it, that is just to much. perhaps a cheaper 40" lcd behind the screen would be large enough for you ? and, as was said, any other light in the room eats at the image.

 

[chadburger]

You may be surprised if you get adjustable focused task lights like a flexy lamp I use, it has a dimmer on it too and is almost not visable as far as degrading image if aimed and dimmed within reason. The 4000 offers so much power in dynamic you could watch it with almost as much might as you want, just dont expect much black levels.
Guess you learn something new all the time cause after 3 Projectors I never read that close kills contrast, why would that be if its used in optimal mode?

 

[jostenmeat]

Guess you learn something new all the time cause after 3 Projectors I never read that close kills contrast, why would that be if its used in optimal mode?

I couldn't explain to you how that works, but that's how it works. I don't know what you imply by "optimal mode".

I've read an explanation before, that I don't remember (probably because it wasn't easy to grasp), but people recommend using some vertical shift on JVC projectors to increase ANSI contrast. Now, the reason I said JVC is because I don't know if this is only for JVC, or all PJs in general. Sorry I can't inform you better, I'm still learning myself . . .

 

[BMXTRIX]

Generally speaking, I try to recommend placing a projector back about 25% from the closest point your can mount it. So, if your range is about 10-13 feet, then abot 11 feet is what I would shoot for. If your range is 10-20 feet, then about 12.5 feet is what I would shoot for.

This gives a nice bright image without sitting at the extreme of the zoom range which could potentially affect image quality.

The reality is that anywhere in the full range shouldn't dramatically affect image quality.

Things like contrast are going to be minimally affected by projector throw distance due to the aperature opening and lens usage. Brightness will be affected significantly, but in a proper setup, this can be dealt with.

I would be taking a VERY close look at the Epson 8500UB vs. the Panasonic as well. Lots of fans of the Panny, which is a very good projector, but the Epson is a bit better and apparently can be a fair bit brighter if necessary.

As for lighting: GET IT CONTROLLED! Dark is not a requirement, but controlling light with directional fixtures and keeping light off the screen is a requirement for best... or sometimes even decent results.

For examples:
http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html

 

[chadburger]

I couldn't explain to you how that works, but that's how it works. I don't know what you imply by "optimal mode".

I've read an explanation before, that I don't remember (probably because it wasn't easy to grasp), but people recommend using some vertical shift on JVC projectors to increase ANSI contrast. Now, the reason I said JVC is because I don't know if this is only for JVC, or all PJs in general. Sorry I can't inform you better, I'm still learning myself . . .

Optimal mode is usually a "cinema" setting as it produces best blacks and Lumen level ideal for a dark room and movie watching.

 

[chadburger]

Generally speaking, I try to recommend placing a projector back about 25% from the closest point your can mount it. So, if your range is about 10-13 feet, then abot 11 feet is what I would shoot for. If your range is 10-20 feet, then about 12.5 feet is what I would shoot for.

This gives a nice bright image without sitting at the extreme of the zoom range which could potentially affect image quality.

The reality is that anywhere in the full range shouldn't dramatically affect image quality.

Things like contrast are going to be minimally affected by projector throw distance due to the aperature opening and lens usage. Brightness will be affected significantly, but in a proper setup, this can be dealt with.

I would be taking a VERY close look at the Epson 8500UB vs. the Panasonic as well. Lots of fans of the Panny, which is a very good projector, but the Epson is a bit better and apparently can be a fair bit brighter if necessary.

As for lighting: GET IT CONTROLLED! Dark is not a requirement, but controlling light with directional fixtures and keeping light off the screen is a requirement for best... or sometimes even decent results.

For examples:
http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html

Maybe "minimal" is why I never heard of this............many times minimal means no need to worry.

 

[titanle]

what would be more detrimental to pq? Ambient light or a room with white walls and ceiling?

 

[jostenmeat]

what would be more detrimental to pq? Ambient light or a room with white walls and ceiling?

IMO, ambient light. I've done the white walls, white carpet thing for a short time. It has been considerably darkened since then, and I've played stuff with ambient lighting. Even a small night light plugged in at the back of the room has very discernible and negative impact to the PQ, or at least it does in my system.

However, I have to say that the white walls impacted my system less than it probably would for others, due to the type of screen I use. Darkening the walls, for me at least, is just as much about immersion as it is improving PQ, in fact maybe even more so.

I believe for most screens (angular reflective) the best bang for buck spot to darken might be the ceiling. For my type of screen (retroreflective), it's actually the back wall according to many.

 

[titanle]

IMO, ambient light. I've done the white walls, white carpet thing for a short time. It has been considerably darkened since then, and I've played stuff with ambient lighting. Even a small night light plugged in at the back of the room has very discernible and negative impact to the PQ, or at least it does in my system.

However, I have to say that the white walls impacted my system less than it probably would for others, due to the type of screen I use. Darkening the walls, for me at least, is just as much about immersion as it is improving PQ, in fact maybe even more so.

I believe for most screens (angular reflective) the best bang for buck spot to darken might be the ceiling. For my type of screen (retroreflective), it's actually the back wall according to many.

Hmmm interesting, thanks for the input. I have put up blackout curtains since 1 wall of the room is basically windows, but still during daylight hours some sunlight still creeps in. Also ive noticed that when watching something at night in complete darkness, the entire room lights up during a bright scene, that must be negatively affecting pq for sure.

Im thinking I should paint 3 walls dark grey, and then paint the screen wall and ceiling a much darker shade of grey.

I have one other concern; ive noticed that if i go from sitting on the couch, to standing up in front of it, the picture becomes much brighter and looks better. Is this an issue with the height of the screen?

 

[just-some-guy]

Ambient light or a room with white walls and ceiling?

those are one in the same. kinda

 

[just-some-guy]

However, I have to say that the white walls impacted my system less than it probably would for others, due to the type of screen I use. Darkening the walls, for me at least, is just as much about immersion as it is improving PQ, in fact maybe even more so.

I believe for most screens (angular reflective) the best bang for buck spot to darken might be the ceiling. For my type of screen (retroreflective), it's actually the back wall according to many.

how close are your walls to the screen ?

19" here, from dark flat brown walls. and the walls still light up just a lil.
black felt ceiling.