Is BluRay a bit of a rip-off

[jostenmeat]

One does gain more noticeably in picture quality but a good up converting DVD player does bring std def DVD comes fairly close.

I see this said a lot.

Even overcompressed TV channels that are natively hidef look better than natively 480i DVDs thru Anchor Bay, Reon, whatever. Give me a break.

Anyone who says this most likely has their display and/or viewing angle as the weak link in the video chain.

480i DVD gets you 337,920 pixels.

1080p bluray gets you 2,073,600.

Upconverting does not magically or accurately create the 1,735,680 missing pixels.

If you honestly think they are even close, then it's your display.

If I have a crappy pair of Bose speakers, how would you consider a statement such as, "CDs and SACDs are simply not worth the premium over mega compressed MP3. I can barely hear the 614% increase in resolution."?

I have a big enough quality display, then even a bad bluray blows away a good DVD. You compare the same title, 99.9% of the time it's not even close. And btw, I do have Anchor Bay at my disposal.

In case you think my screen is too big, I've had a play/stage manager (film degree), a playwright working on a comic book in NYC (film degree), a former employee of ToddAO, and a DGA director (of +10 years, works internationally) come over, and they all say the viewing angle is perfect.

Now, yes, I know I am very lucky to have a setup such as this, but just because you do not, you cannot say that bluray is a marginal improvement over DVD. IOW, the source is not the weak link here, it IS the display.

Check this out. VHS has 250 horiz lines of resolution. DVD has 480. BD has 1080. Therefore:

DVD increase of horizontal lines over VHS is 192%

Bluray increase of horizontal lines over DVD is 225%


Now, it would be another thing entirely, if you say that human visual perception cannot discern these differences, assuming the viewing angle is large enough. I hope that's not what you are saying.

 

[oppman99]

Why is it not a rip-off? The audio quality of the lossless over the lossy codecs is minimal at best. One the best sounding DVDs out there is Master & Commander on a lossy DTS sountrack.

One does gain more noticeably in picture quality but a good up converting DVD player does bring std def DVD comes fairly close.

3db, I was in your camp until I actually bought a BR player. Upscaled DVD's are nice, but even on my 720p display there is no contest. I definately notice the difference between most DVD sound and DTS-MA. It adds a little more lifelike realism to me. Not saying I have golden ears or anything like that, but I definately notice a difference. As far as price goes, I follow the advice given earlier about shopping Amazon. I've picked up 3 or 4 relatively new (released in the last year or two) movies this week for around $15/movie on average after shipping and they are new discs. I can remember paying about $25 for my first DVD way back when. If you consider inflation, the cost of a new BR is pretty comparable. Would I prefer to pay less...heck yea! It just means I wait to find a deal and am selective about the movies I purchase.

 

[skizzerflake]

Because Blue Ray doesn't cost extra at Blockbuster and because I don't buy many movies (I live a short walk from BB so I can rent anything cheap for my monthly fee), Blue Ray is the clear winner, but it depends on the movie. Indie flix, foreign films, etc don't have much added by BD, but FX movies, definitely.

 

[Alex2507]

I see this said a lot.

Even overcompressed TV channels that are natively hidef look better than natively 480i DVDs thru Anchor Bay, Reon, whatever. Give me a break.

Anyone who says this most likely has their display and/or viewing angle as the weak link in the video chain.

480i DVD gets you 337,920 pixels.

1080p bluray gets you 2,073,600.

Upconverting does not magically or accurately create the 1,735,680 missing pixels.

If you honestly think they are even close, then it's your display.

If I have a crappy pair of Bose speakers, how would you consider a statement such as, "CDs and SACDs are simply not worth the premium over mega compressed MP3. I can barely hear the 614% increase in resolution."?

I have a big enough quality display, then even a bad bluray blows away a good DVD. You compare the same title, 99.9% of the time it's not even close. And btw, I do have Anchor Bay at my disposal.

In case you think my screen is too big, I've had a play/stage manager (film degree), a playwright working on a comic book in NYC (film degree), a former employee of ToddAO, and a DGA director (of +10 years, works internationally) come over, and they all say the viewing angle is perfect.

Now, yes, I know I am very lucky to have a setup such as this, but just because you do not, you cannot say that bluray is a marginal improvement over DVD. IOW, the source is not the weak link here, it IS the display.

Check this out. VHS has 250 horiz lines of resolution. DVD has 480. BD has 1080. Therefore:

DVD increase of horizontal lines over VHS is 192%

Bluray increase of horizontal lines over DVD is 225%


Now, it would be another thing entirely, if you say that human visual perception cannot discern these differences, assuming the viewing angle is large enough. I hope that's not what you are saying.

Ug ... Blu-ray good ... fire bad.

 

[Nugu]

Just like to add that Blu-rays are coming down. I hate to advertise for walfart but they did add a 8$ BR rack with probably 20 titles along with ~8 10$ titles, and ~15 15$ titles.

While not all of them are that great I grabbed Crank for 8$ and Master and Commander for 10$. And +1 for amazon, I got my Ironmaiden Flight 666 concert BR for 15$.

As far as the used market goes, as long as the item is still current and not terrible these types of things tend to go for 80-90% of original retail. It isn't just BR it's the same for video games and etc.

 

[j_garcia]

Why is it not a rip-off? The audio quality of the lossless over the lossy codecs is minimal at best. One the best sounding DVDs out there is Master & Commander on a lossy DTS sountrack.

Funny you should mention Master & Commander, because it is definitely NOT one of the better looking Blu-rays. The remastered video quality is quite poor and actually looks like an upscaled DVD. I do agree that upscaled DVDs do look better, but as has already been said, it isn't going to give you the same quality.

Sorry, but I completely disagree with you on the audio. Maybe not on every movie, but with well mastered movies, there is a BIG difference between the old codecs and the new ones.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Blu-ray is far from a rip-off. There is NO reason NOT to a have a BD player since costs of Blu-ray players have dropped considerebly. New releases can be still expensive but it is very common to find older titles or even some of the newer releases for under $20. 2 for 1 deals or package deals are common even at the big box stores making buying disks not that costly. Costs should not be that much of an issue.

You can get a superb blu-ray player for under $200 dollars. The Panasonic BD60 is just one of the many examples that is available at this pricepoint.

The increase in picture quality is worth $150-$200 alone. It is a HUGE difference going from 480p to 720p/1080i/1080p. I find the lossless codecs an improvement (not as much as picture quality). Clarity and dynamic range seem to be the biggest improvements I have found with sound quality.

Blu-ray is far from a rip-off at this stage in the game. Even the bargain hunter can enjoy the virtues of Blu-ray.

 

[3db]

I see this said a lot.

Even overcompressed TV channels that are natively hidef look better than natively 480i DVDs thru Anchor Bay, Reon, whatever. Give me a break.

Anyone who says this most likely has their display and/or viewing angle as the weak link in the video chain.

480i DVD gets you 337,920 pixels.

1080p bluray gets you 2,073,600.

Upconverting does not magically or accurately create the 1,735,680 missing pixels.

If you honestly think they are even close, then it's your display.

If I have a crappy pair of Bose speakers, how would you consider a statement such as, "CDs and SACDs are simply not worth the premium over mega compressed MP3. I can barely hear the 614% increase in resolution."?

I have a big enough quality display, then even a bad bluray blows away a good DVD. You compare the same title, 99.9% of the time it's not even close. And btw, I do have Anchor Bay at my disposal.

In case you think my screen is too big, I've had a play/stage manager (film degree), a playwright working on a comic book in NYC (film degree), a former employee of ToddAO, and a DGA director (of +10 years, works internationally) come over, and they all say the viewing angle is perfect.

Now, yes, I know I am very lucky to have a setup such as this, but just because you do not, you cannot say that bluray is a marginal improvement over DVD. IOW, the source is not the weak link here, it IS the display.

Check this out. VHS has 250 horiz lines of resolution. DVD has 480. BD has 1080. Therefore:

DVD increase of horizontal lines over VHS is 192%

Bluray increase of horizontal lines over DVD is 225%


Now, it would be another thing entirely, if you say that human visual perception cannot discern these differences, assuming the viewing angle is large enough. I hope that's not what you are saying.

I should buy more Blu_Rays I suppose. The picture in the Blu Ray of Star Trek is really good, better than anything I have on regular DVD and up scaled. I just thought it would a real night and day difference. Could be that I'm not sitting close enough to the screen. But the soundtrack is another story. This is supposed to be a reference standard sound track but to me its just OK. The lossy DTS version of Master & Commander blows the audio quality of Star Trek right out of the water.

 

[3db]

Enough of you said that its just supply and demand. Thats what I've been thinking as well. I guess its an industry cash cow for the time being until the next format comes out.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Enough of you said that its just supply and demand. Thats what I've been thinking as well. I guess its an industry cash cow for the time being until the next format comes out.

It really is all just simple economics (consumer demand, supply, increasing economies of scale of production/technology improvements, allocative effeciency (consumers surplus). The decrease in costs of disks is probably due to excessive supply (especially older titles) and the reduction in costs of players is probably due to increasing economies of scale in production and long run technological improvements. When I purchased my BD55 2 years ago it cost me around $500. What does the BD80 (the equivalent model) go for now, half that?

 

[Alex2507]

The Panny BD60 or something cost me $110 and what's wrong with renting? Who the hell needs to own everything they ever watch anyways ... except j_garcia?

Is this officially a Canuk thread? Okay, you guys have to pay 10X more ... for everything.

 

[MinusTheBear]

The Panny BD60 or something cost me $110 and what's wrong with renting? Who the hell needs to own everything they ever watch anyways ... except j_garcia?

Is this officially a Canuk thread? Okay, you guys have to pay 10X more ... for everything.

We do pay more but it is still not too bad. The players advertised this week at future shop is a Samsung model for $179.99 and the Panasonic for $199.99. They are also advertising Live Free or Die Hard (which is a reference disk according Ralph Potts over at AVS) bundled with Independance day for $14.99. I say those are competitive prices. Wally Mart also runs specials once in a while, so its not hard to find cheap(er) Blu-ray disks over here. And great point about renting disks Alex.

 

[jostenmeat]

I should buy more Blu_Rays I suppose. The picture in the Blu Ray of Star Trek is really good, better than anything I have on regular DVD and up scaled. I just thought it would a real night and day difference. Could be that I'm not sitting close enough to the screen. But the soundtrack is another story. This is supposed to be a reference standard sound track but to me its just OK. The lossy DTS version of Master & Commander blows the audio quality of Star Trek right out of the water.

You don't have to buy them, you can rent them. I think Midnight Sensi might have only bought one ever, but he seems to be reviewing the titles as much as anyone else. However, I don't know what rental services you have up there. Here, I get two BDs a month from netflix, for $6.51 after tax, or $3.25 per. Of course, I buy plenty as well, prices being all over the map. Usually, the better the PQ, the more the titles costs.

 

[3db]

The Panny BD60 or something cost me $110 and what's wrong with renting? Who the hell needs to own everything they ever watch anyways ... except j_garcia?

Is this officially a Canuk thread? Okay, you guys have to pay 10X more ... for everything.

Nothing wrong with renting at all. I rent what I don't want to buy.

Netflix? Hmm Do we even have that in Canada? How's the bandwidth? Any artifacting because of bandwidth problems?

 

[Shock]

Okay guys, here are the facts.

1. Only crappy movies go on sale.
This is pretty much a given. You want a movie on BR? Too friggen bad, we only have Legally Blonde 2 on sale.

2. When your movie does go on sale it's not at a great discount.
You want 50% off Law Abiding Citizen? **** no, 3.678% off is what you get.

3. "I just paid 25 bucks for that!"
Right after you buy a BR movie you find it online or in a store for significantly less than you paid for it. You're so pissed when you get home you watch the movie because you don't want to feel like you just got screwed.

These are the BR buying facts.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Okay guys, here are the facts.

1. Only crappy movies go on sale.
This is pretty much a given. You want a movie on BR? Too friggen bad, we only have Legally Blonde 2 on sale.

2. When your movie does go on sale it's not at a great discount.
You want 50% off Law Abiding Citizen? **** no, 3.678% off is what you get.

3. "I just paid 25 bucks for that!"
Right after you buy a BR movie you find it online or in a store for significantly less than you paid for it. You're so pissed when you get home you watch the movie because you don't want to feel like you just got screwed.

These are the BR buying facts.

Start buying off Amazon and you can avoid most that list (btw, Law Abiding Citizen is currently $16.99 (58% off))

 

[Shock]

Start buying off Amazon and you can avoid most that list (btw, Law Abiding Citizen is currently $16.99 (58% off))

Amazon inflates their regular prices to make their deals seem good. For the example you just gave that would put the regular price of LAC at 40 bucks. No place sells blu-rays for 40 bucks.

I buy all of my blu-rays at blockbuster now, 2 for 30 bucks CDN on pretty much anything you could want.

 

[j_garcia]

You don't have to buy them, you can rent them. I think Midnight Sensi might have only bought one ever, but he seems to be reviewing the titles as much as anyone else. However, I don't know what rental services you have up there. Here, I get two BDs a month from netflix, for $6.51 after tax, or $3.25 per. Of course, I buy plenty as well, prices being all over the map. Usually, the better the PQ, the more the titles costs.

For $12 a month I watch about 10 Netflix movies, 90% BD (one at a time unlimited with BD), so that is about $1.20 a movie. Not including streaming, which I haven't been doing much of lately. I used to buy a lot of movies, but since adding Netflix, I have cut buying down from about 6-8 movies a month to about 1 or 2.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Amazon inflates their regular prices to make their deals seem good. For the example you just gave that would put the regular price of LAC at 40 bucks. No place sells blu-rays for 40 bucks.

I buy all of my blu-rays at blockbuster now, 2 for 30 bucks CDN on pretty much anything you could want.

There is nothing "inflated" in showing a discount off the MSRP, it is common in many things from music to automobiles, some people are smart enough to pay less than list, others aren't. The list price for Law Abiding Citizen is $39.98, Best Buy currently sells it for and shows their discounted price for the same movie as $29.99. Borders by my house sells all movies at full list (thankfully they are discontinuing selling movies). I think Amazons price of $16.99 for the movie, brand new, is reasonable and below other common retail sellers. (I only used that movie as an example because it was specifically mentioned in another post.)

Comparing used rental copies which may be edited and lacking special features, digital copies, and possibly other discs to brand new copies that may include all those extras is not a straight comparison. It all comes down to buying that which one prefers and at a price which one finds acceptable.

 

[Shock]

There is nothing "inflated" in showing a discount off the MSRP, it is common in many things from music to automobiles, some people are smart enough to pay less than list, others aren't. The list price for Law Abiding Citizen is $39.98, Best Buy currently sells it for and shows their discounted price for the same movie as $29.99. Borders by my house sells all movies at full list (thankfully they are discontinuing selling movies). I think Amazons price of $16.99 for the movie, brand new, is reasonable and below other common retail sellers. (I only used that movie as an example because it was specifically mentioned in another post.)

Comparing used rental copies which may be edited and lacking special features, digital copies, and possibly other discs to brand new copies that may include all those extras is not a straight comparison. It all comes down to buying that which one prefers and at a price which one finds acceptable.

You're right 16.99 is a decent price for a brand new blu-ray. However it is not "58%" off, as amazon claims. You cannot take their percentage savings with a grain of salt. No competetive retail store will sell blu-rays for those kind of ridiculous prices. Amazon.ca lists LAC as 39.99 CDN regular price, and Amazon.com lists the movie at 39.98 USD. Futureshop has it listed for 27.99. You can't say "hey this movie is always on sale!" Sorry, if it's always on sale, than that's it regular price. I picked up my copies of District 9 and LAC today at Blockbuster for 33.90 including taxes. I just can't really get behind a company that tries to make you feel like you're getting a better deal than you are. I only use Amazon when I want a very off the cuff movie that no place else carries. They do have a nice selection, however their Canadian site leads much to be desired.

Actually the Canadian version of pretty much every site leaves much to be desired.