TC-Sounds on their way back...

[Warpdrv]

Warp... I can not believe the number of high performance super subs you are using in your living room area. Incredible.

Do you want to be able to make guests vomit upon themselves when you will it?

How do the LMS 18" units compare to the diycable.com Maelstrom 18" drivers? I would expect substantially higher SPL from the LMS without hint of distortion (maybe 3-4dB more output; 50-65% more linear output) as compared to the Malstrom, but that's just a guess.

Also, how much power do you have to feed the LMS(I have heard they can take up to 5000 RMS amplifiers with no problem)?

-Chris

HAhahaha I just like to have a nice bit of headroom....
But seriously - yeah suffice it to say the Mal-X's sounded pretty darn good, but as you say the build quality can't compete on the level of the LMS's.

I have been waiting for a long time for these drivers to come back to market. Anywho, I have 4 somewhat vintage Crest 8002 amps powering the LMS's - more then enough power to make the LMS's do their thing. Performed very well in the Binks Amp shootout and test, did really well even under the line sag test.
http://www.binkster.net/AmpShootout_20-20k_results.xls

 

[lsiberian]

They're back!

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=Mfg&srchMfg=150&AID=1482282&PID=2777698

 

[WmAx]

Sound Splinter is still much better source for the LMS drivers. The RL-S series is in line with the LMS 5400. The new LMS-R cost about the same, but have smaller motors, less linear excursion and lower power handling. Still, it's nice to see TC back in business. But the cost of LMS 5400 drivers is almost insane from Parts Express. The 18" LMS 5400 used to be around $800 from online website sales when TC Sounds used to have retail website. PE probably paid $600-$800, I am guessing, so you are now 'paying' for retail sales by additional parties.

-Chris

 

[Warpdrv]

I agree 100%, they are def in this to make a profit...

I'm thinking I may invest in a couple more 18's and start a project for a somewhat compact Vertical Dual Opposed build just for spits and giggles...

Octagon shape - 24" W & D 40"H Gotta do the math on the volume though...

 

[Warpdrv]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1RIMfzCxXM

 

[lsiberian]

I agree 100%, they are def in this to make a profit..

I've got no issues with them getting rich. They deserve it. If I had a larger budget I'd be getting the LMS drivers and some of their PRs

 

[WmAx]

How will they get rich? Probably go bankrupt again with those ridiculous prices.

-Chris

 

[Stereodude]

Unless I'm trying to fit the most bass into the absolute smallest box, I don't see the appeal. I can get 6 AE AV15-H or AV15-X drivers for the same amount of money as a single 18" LMS 5400 and build something that will compare rather favorably.

 

[annunaki]

Unless I'm trying to fit the most bass into the absolute smallest box, I don't see the appeal. I can get 6 AE AV15-H or AV15-X drivers for the same amount of money as a single 18" LMS 5400 and build something that will compare rather favorably.

You could also power them off of the same 5K watts of power too!

At some point the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

 

[Quickley17]

At some point the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

How am I supposed to balance the law of diminishing returns with the law of "I MUST OWN THE MOST EXPENSIVE THING I CAN AFFORD!"?

 

[lsiberian]

Unless I'm trying to fit the most bass into the absolute smallest box, I don't see the appeal. I can get 6 AE AV15-H or AV15-X drivers for the same amount of money as a single 18" LMS 5400 and build something that will compare rather favorably.

Well these drivers are really only needed for sealed stuff anyway.

A ported 12 or 15" is sufficient for most rooms.

 

[Stereodude]

Well these drivers are really only needed for sealed stuff anyway.

Assuming you can only have one sub and it needs to be as small as possible.

Lets do a quick comparisons...

We'll put the TC Sounds 18" LMS Ultra in 120L box with heavy fill, put 2kW on it (the most it can handle in the box without running out of excursion). We'll put 4 AE AV15-H drivers in a 300L box with heavy fill, put 2.4kW on it.

So, for less money you can get a lot more bass, but you'll need a bigger box. Or, if you drop to only two AV15-H drivers in 150L with heavy fill...

You can basically equal the performance of the TC driver with less wattage (cheaper amp), a fraction of the driver cost ($500 vs. $1400+), and only a slightly larger box.

So that leaves them with the guy who wants to put 5kW on it (really more than it's rated for) and put it the smallest box possible (so like 57L, heavy fill, & 5kW).

I just don't see that as a big market, but what do I know?

A ported 12 or 15" is sufficient for most rooms.

Haha... You're a funny guy.

 

[highfigh]

OK, so let's assume someone wants to put 5KW into their sub(s). That's in the 120dB-130dB range, right?

A few questions:

What speakers will be used for the rest of the audio spectrum?
What amplifiers will be used?
What is the desired frequency response for the system, as a whole?
What is the intended SPL, on average? OSHA regs call for no more than 15 minutes of exposure to 115dB SPL in one day and no exposure to peaks of 140dB.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=9735

 

[Stereodude]

It's called headroom. If you can hit 115+dB at your seats from your mains and 125+dB at your seats with your subs down to 10Hz when you're only asking your system to deliver 105dB peaks (reference level) from the mains and 115dB peaks for the LFE channel (also reference level) your system will sound very very good because it's just loafing along and isn't producing crazy amounts of distortion that colors and negatively impacts the sound.

Mark Seaton makes some very nice speakers like the Catalysts & Sparks that could "keep up" with bass like that.

 

[highfigh]

It's called headroom. If you can hit 115+dB at your seats from your mains and 125+dB at your seats with your subs down to 10Hz when you're only asking your system to deliver 105dB peaks (reference level) from the mains and 115dB peaks for the LFE channel (also reference level) your system will sound very very good because it's just loafing along and isn't producing crazy amounts of distortion that colors and negatively impacts the sound.

Mark Seaton makes some very nice speakers like the Catalysts & Sparks that could "keep up" with bass like that.

Gee, thanks. I never heard of headroom before.

Have you ever measured the SPL for your average listening/viewing?

 

[adwilk]

Aren't there advantages of using a fewer amount of drivers to create adequate spl in terms of sq?

 

[Stereodude]

Aren't there advantages of using a fewer amount of drivers to create adequate spl in terms of sq?

That depends on the frequency range you're discussing. For subwoofer frequency range bass, no. More drivers spread out creates a more even response through out the room.

 

[Stereodude]

Gee, thanks. I never heard of headroom before.

Have you ever measured the SPL for your average listening/viewing?

Who said anything about me having a system like the one I described? FWIW, I don't. I listen about 10dB below reference in my great room. However, I do plan to put something you would definitely consider excessive in my basement HT that I'm getting ready to start construction on.

 

[adwilk]

That depends on the frequency range you're discussing. For subwoofer frequency range bass, no. More drivers spread out creates a more even response through out the room.

But weren't you talking about putting 4 subs in one box?

 

[Stereodude]

But weren't you talking about putting 4 subs in one box?

Well, the SPL is the same whether you put 4 subs in one 300L box, or 4 have subs, one driver each in four 75L boxes (assuming good acoustic coupling).