Clearest Vocal Sound ? on 2 channel

[njedpx3]

Okay, I setup a "basic" system at the cabin. It was two channel stereo going through a Marantz 1060 into Cambridge Audio S30s on Sanus stands. I also have the following inputs Sagean HDT-1X (TerK AM 1000 and C-Cran FM Reflect antennaes, Sony BDP-S360 Blu-Ray disc player, Sony Triton 36 inch 480i (Arrggh!, really makes me appreciate the PRO 151-FD).

So here is the question, the sound on TV and DVDs was better on the TV than though the sound system ??. So I made the sound direct on the Marantz 1060 by turning off all treble, bass and mid and then it sounded pretty clear.

My question, how is the best way to obtain good vocals from TV and DVDs on a 2 channel without a center dialog speaker?

Peace and Good Sound!

Forest Man

 

[jamie2112]

Its 2 channel so stereo would be best or direct mode.........

 

[STRONGBADF1]

The problem could be all the tile in that room. Sound just bouncing every where muddying up the dialog. That and just being used to a better quality of sound.



Aren't you supposed to be relaxing and just listening to the birds chirping there?

 

[krzywica]

Well the way you have it in the pictures there is no way you are going to get proper imaging with bost speakers to the left of the TV.....unless I missed something I assume this is what you are asking?

 

[Alex2507]

I think the speaker placement has to be playing havoc with your brain. Just accept the fact that you live in Texas and jam that TV in front of the fire place cause you don't need it ... or move the speakers so that they are on either side of the TV ... then the usual forward/back/toe adjustments would go a long way to help with imaging ... but that's only me guessing.

 

[njedpx3]

Well the way you have it in the pictures there is no way you are going to get proper imaging with bost speakers to the left of the TV.....unless I missed something I assume this is what you are asking?

You are correct, I have adjusted the balance to get the best imaging

Actually Jamie verified what I found that direct mode was the best for sound clarity.

And Stongbadf1 also pointed out that there is a pretty significant diferrence in quality between my two systems.

And yes the cabin s for relaxation and listening to the birds

Peace and Good Sound,

Forest Man

 

[njedpx3]

I think the speaker placement has to be playing havoc with your brain. Just accept the fact that you live in Texas and jam that TV in front of the fire place cause you don't need it ... or move the speakers so that they are on either side of the TV ... then the usual forward/back/toe adjustments would go a long way to help with imaging ... but that's only me guessing.

Speaker placement

Well when just listening to music I get pretty good imaging by balancing the speaker output!

You guys have given some great input as usual.

Later,

Forest Man


P.S. - about the fireplace. There is no gas available at the cabin; all electric. I am going to use my Scout leader skills to build a fire ... sometime

P.S.S. - Everything plays havoc with my brain

 

[highfigh]

Okay, I setup a "basic" system at the cabin. It was two channel stereo going through a Marantz 1060 into Cambridge Audio S30s on Sanus stands. I also have the following inputs Sagean HDT-1X (TerK AM 1000 and C-Cran FM Reflect antennaes, Sony BDP-S360 Blu-Ray disc player, Sony Triton 36 inch 480i (Arrggh!, really makes me appreciate the PRO 151-FD).

So here is the question, the sound on TV and DVDs was better on the TV than though the sound system ??. So I made the sound direct on the Marantz 1060 by turning off all treble, bass and mid and then it sounded pretty clear.

My question, how is the best way to obtain good vocals from TV and DVDs on a 2 channel without a center dialog speaker?

Peace and Good Sound!

Forest Man

That's a cabin?

 

[jostenmeat]

My question, how is the best way to obtain good vocals from TV and DVDs on a 2 channel without a center dialog speaker?

I would play with speaker orientation/placement. I can't tell, but it does seem the tweeter is probably at ear level. If it isn't try to make it so, either with pads to lift them, or flipping them upside down to lower them. Well, some speakers are more affected by differing tweeter heights than others.

Then I see that depending where you are seated, you are very offaxis to any certain speaker. The more offaxis you are, the more inaccurate the response will be from said speaker. Have the speakers axes cross in front of your face, and play with levels from there. Well, I guess that's what I would first try, just brainstorming here.

 

[j_garcia]

IMO, they should not cross in front of your face, they should cross a foot or two behind your head. From the pic, it looks like you are sitting way too close to them, but it is hard to tell from the pic. A rug between you and the speakers would help and moving them a little further apart so that they are not right next to the fireplace should all help. I don't have any problems with dialog on my 2ch rig. I've read on here that the S30s are pretty good with vocals too.

 

[JerryLove]

My question, how is the best way to obtain good vocals from TV and DVDs on a 2 channel without a center dialog speaker?

Umm.. Phantom the center channel?

 

[j_garcia]

Umm.. Phantom the center channel?

You can't phantom it in a 2ch rig EVERYTHING is stereo

 

[jostenmeat]

IMO, they should not cross in front of your face, they should cross a foot or two behind your head.

In either case, both orientations are much closer than not, when comparing to how they are presently setup. My HT has them crossing behind the head, but that's as a compromise for many viewers. If I did it for one sweet spot, I'd cross right at the face or a bit in front of it. Well, anyways, again, all of these are closer than not, as respective angles.

You can't phantom it in a 2ch rig EVERYTHING is stereo

Yes!

 

[j_garcia]

Sometimes it depends on the speakers too - my old speakers were not as good off axis, so they had to be pointed pretty close to AT you to get a "disappearing" image. My A/V-2s are clean to 30degrees off axis, so even though they have a narrow "ideal" sweet spot, they sound good pretty much everywhere on the couch.

I'd also throw a blanket over the back of the couch while listening, as the couch is going to give you a lot of reflections.

That's a cabin?

You missed that thread Yes it is, and a nice one at that.

 

[highfigh]

If the source is in stereo, the voices will be wherever they have been mixed for stereo. In other words, since dialog is supposed to be centered, it will be in the center by default. If the speakers have been placed correctly, the dialog should sound like it's dead center. If it sounds like it comes from both sides with a hole in the middle, I suspect the speakers have problems with dispersion causing comb filtering and lobing. They're also small enough that the lower range of human voices may be fairly weak and this can be verified by turning the sub off and listening to full-range music. Stereo sound should be completely seamless across the front stage.

I'd bet that the center would fill in if the speakers were placed in front of the fireplace, about 1' - 1-1/2' away.

 

[njedpx3]

That's a cabin?

Yes, "cabin" doesn't need to be rustic ..it is out in the woods

see this thread : http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58877&highlight=national+woods


Peace,

Forest Man

 

[njedpx3]

In either case, both orientations are much closer than not, when comparing to how they are presently setup. My HT has them crossing behind the head, but that's as a compromise for many viewers. If I did it for one sweet spot, I'd cross right at the face or a bit in front of it. Well, anyways, again, all of these are closer than not, as respective angles.



Yes!

Jamie confirmed what I found out, that direct gave the best vocal sound. When I was getting worse dailog, I had the bass and treble boosted and the mid a little.

The speaker placement is rather fixed, I use Sanus stands to get the speaker height to ear level. The Marantz 1060 has balance and I can some what adjust the off axis response.

The distance is actually farther than it looks and there isn't much I can do about that either.

Ireally appreciateallthe naswers and the responses, Audioholic members are the best.

Peace and Good Sound,

Forest Man

 

[njedpx3]

If the source is in stereo, the voices will be wherever they have been mixed for stereo. In other words, since dialog is supposed to be centered, it will be in the center by default. If the speakers have been placed correctly, the dialog should sound like it's dead center. If it sounds like it comes from both sides with a hole in the middle, I suspect the speakers have problems with dispersion causing comb filtering and lobing. They're also small enough that the lower range of human voices may be fairly weak and this can be verified by turning the sub off and listening to full-range music. Stereo sound should be completely seamless across the front stage.

I'd bet that the center would fill in if the speakers were placed in front of the fireplace, about 1' - 1-1/2' away.

highfigh,

Thanks for your feedback.

Actually my problem was more that I had the bass and treble boosted and it reduced the vocal clarity; was great for music . Playing with the balance I can perfectly center the front sound image and eliminate any comb filtering or lobing. When I went to direct signal, no boost, then the voice and dialog became clear.

One reason I like the Cambridge Audio S-30s is because they are ported in the back they have good bass, rated to 55 Hz, really excellent bass for their size. Here is a review: http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Cambridge-Audio-S30/

This is a true 2.0 system; no subwoofer.


Peace and Good Sound,

Forest Man