NAD vs Emotiva vs Outlaw

H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Balanced connections are commonly used for microphones with long cables (30 feet or more) which can can pick up noise induced by electromagnetic interference (EMI) or radio frequency interference (RFI). Microphones generate low voltage signals in the 1 to 3 mV range (0.001 to 0.003 V). Balanced connections along with the differential circuits required on the gear on either end of the cable can cancel out this noise.

It seems that balanced connections are now fashionable for preamp to amp connections, and many higher priced examples feature these as a sought-after feature. The voltage output levels of preamps are typically much higher than for microphones, roughly in the range of 0.1 to 5.0 V. So it is likely that interconnects at this level are much less prone to EMI induced noise, especially if they are less than 30 feet long. I think that standard RCA interconnects between a preamp and amp are fine, unless you have an unusually noisy environment with high levels of EMI.

Please forgive the rant… this is a minor pet peeve of mine ;).

Going from 60 to 200 watts should make an easily noticeable difference. It should be "cleaner sounding" even when you are playing it loud. You might also notice better sounding bass, but this can vary with what speakers you use.

When I said an amp with 200 watts should future proof things, please note that I said nothing about vacuum cleaner-proof :D.
Whether it's a fad or not, having the chance to use balanced inputs on an amp also allows using a wider variety of preamps and processors, staying balanced fro more of the signal chain. The trend of using pro and pro-sumer gear, like Behringer, etc in consumer systems is a clear signal that some manufacturers are in for a boost in sales, while the ones that don't bother with balanced in/out jacks may lose some market share. I have thought for a long time that many receivers don't offer the features and quality I want, so I started using separates about 30 years ago. I also think the top of the line receivers cost far more than I and many others want to pay. Enter Emotiva and the other companies that sell more reasonably priced gear and some of us will consider buying up without paying $5K for what they want.

I would prefer that more manufacturing is done in the US, though. I know it can be done but not at these prices.
 
A

Affejunge

Audioholic
So, highfigh, it sounds like you would go with Emotiva....

Hmmm...I know they offer the 30 day trial, but it will do me no good as I will not have the NAD to compare it with. I know (seriously hope) it will sound better than the Adcom GFA-5200 that I am running now (in all fairness, at 50wpc, the Adcom is a really good amp).

It seems like with NAD I will have excellent power, all channels driven, to 100wpc.

Yet with Emotiva, their specs are not as good, but I will get 200wpc.

It seems it would be better to forgo the 3db of volume for cleaner power. I am especially critical of 2 channel listening.

They both offer a "mono-block" design, so I should see significant improvement with 2 channel on both.

Fra-GI-le...(that's Italian, you know) I am now leaning back toward the NAD.

Now, for the wildcard, if I up'ed my budget to say, $1200, is there something else I should look at? Rotel 1095?
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
So, highfigh, it sounds like you would go with Emotiva....

Hmmm...I know they offer the 30 day trial, but it will do me no good as I will not have the NAD to compare it with. I know (seriously hope) it will sound better than the Adcom GFA-5200 that I am running now (in all fairness, at 50wpc, the Adcom is a really good amp).

It seems like with NAD I will have excellent power, all channels driven, to 100wpc.

Yet with Emotiva, their specs are not as good, but I will get 200wpc.

It seems it would be better to forgo the 3db of volume for cleaner power. I am especially critical of 2 channel listening.

They both offer a "mono-block" design, so I should see significant improvement with 2 channel on both.

Fra-GI-le...(that's Italian, you know) I am now leaning back toward the NAD.

Now, for the wildcard, if I up'ed my budget to say, $1200, is there something else I should look at? Rotel 1095?
At this time, I'd wait until I knew more about Emotiva but they definitely look like they could be a contender. I don't buy anything like that without seeing, touching and hearing but the layout looks intelligent and I like the dual voltage part. As far as the distortion, nobody will EVER hear the difference. If a speaker's sensitivity is 87dB at 1W/1M and the THD is .1%, the distortion will be about 30dB below the 87dB and if you have ever measured background noise levels in a normal room, you know it's often in the 55dB-65dB range. That means the THD will be barely audible but only if someone knows what to listen for or it will be masked by the ambient noise. If the THD drops to .02%, it drops to about -37dB from the reference tone and since we don't listen to reference tones, any kind of complex waveforms with random peaks will completely obscure this distortion.

Anyone who thinks they can hear the THD from an amplifier when the speakers are probably producing more than these numbers should re-examine their ideas, IMO.

I'll take the extra dynamics over a tiny bit less distortion. If the amp runs out of headroom, it will either compress or clip and that's a heck of a lot more than .1%THD.

What makes the Emotiva 'fragile'?

I haven't looked at a Rotel piece of any kind since probably '78, when I started working at a stereo store and we were in the process of drooping that line because they didn't sell well. Personally, if I listen to a system and can hear instruments without being conscious of it being a collection of electronic components, I'm happy. I really don't care what brand or model it is, although I haven't heard many receivers that didn't leave footprints on the sound in some way. I really like the sound of my music server, I don't have a problem with my DVD and CD players but at the moment, I'm really PO'd at DirecTV for dropping XM in favor of Sonic Tap, whatever they hell that is. The sound of XM was several orders of magnitude better. I really don't care if FM sounds great, or not because there's so little good programming, although we do have a college station that's very good. Until I get a new cartridge for my turntable, I don't listen too critically to my albums. I was using a Conrad Johnson amp but I pulled it out to replace some caps and haven't used it in a while. It was nice but it definitely isn't as crisp as a solid state amp. The amp I'm using sounds good but doesn't have many video inputs and all of the audio inputs are analog because it's over 20 years old. It's clean, quiet and all of the controls/input switching are passive. I prefer to keep the signal path simple, if at all possible, and I don't use any of the filters or tone controls. I have used them but I hear differences that aren't just from the tonal change. For that matter, when I use the Rec Out selector to send audio from the server to my basement and garage stereos, I hear a definite difference in my main system, so I leave that off when I'm inside.

I'm not a neurotic purist and I'm not searching for a Grail when it comes to equipment but I do have some definite preferences when it comes to sound.
 
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A

Affejunge

Audioholic
What makes the Emotiva 'fragile'?
Oh, nothing. Instead of saying "f***," I just said Fra-GI-le...ala "A Christmas Story". Sorry for the obscure joke.

Yes, I like the fact the Emotiva is about $60 cheaper, has twice the power, and balanced ins (not that I would ever likely use them, but nice to have the option).

I have seen NO critical reviews on Emotiva, just forum "reviews" with no idea who is doing the reviewing. Plus, I have heard the NAD and know it sounds great.

Hmmm...maybe I will wait a few more days before ordering.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Oh, nothing. Instead of saying "f***," I just said Fra-GI-le...ala "A Christmas Story". Sorry for the obscure joke.

Yes, I like the fact the Emotiva is about $60 cheaper, has twice the power, and balanced ins (not that I would ever likely use them, but nice to have the option).

I have seen NO critical reviews on Emotiva, just forum "reviews" with no idea who is doing the reviewing. Plus, I have heard the NAD and know it sounds great.

Hmmm...maybe I will wait a few more days before ordering.
From what I've been seeing Emotiva has been suffering iwth quality issues lately..just a head up.

What's your budget? have you consider picking up a used Bryston which would smoke all of your choices in build quality? Only company out there to offer a 20 year transferable warranty.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Oh, nothing. Instead of saying "f***," I just said Fra-GI-le...ala "A Christmas Story". Sorry for the obscure joke.

Yes, I like the fact the Emotiva is about $60 cheaper, has twice the power, and balanced ins (not that I would ever likely use them, but nice to have the option).

I have seen NO critical reviews on Emotiva, just forum "reviews" with no idea who is doing the reviewing. Plus, I have heard the NAD and know it sounds great.

Hmmm...maybe I will wait a few more days before ordering.
I didn't think a leg lamp would pertain to this discussion, but I suppose a remote control could be stored in the band of a stocking or a garter.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
From what I've been seeing Emotiva has been suffering iwth quality issues lately..just a head up.
I missed that. What has been happening?
Amps?
Pre-amps?
Speakers?
Across the board?

Thanks,
Kurt
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I missed that. What has been happening?
Amps?
Pre-amps?
Speakers?
Across the board?

Thanks,
Kurt
Some of the pre-amps seem to be buggy, as reported by a few members here.
 
A

Affejunge

Audioholic
Well I did it, I pulled the trigger and just ordered the NAD T955.

Though the Emotiva is very tempting, I decided to go with a company with a solid track record of good products as reviewed by mostly unbias magazine and web reviewers.

I am sure the Emotiva is an excellent amp but I just knew if I bought it I would always be wondering if the NAD would sound better. Plus I have heard the NAD and really liked it.

I will post here in a few weeks what I think of the new amp.
 
J

Josuah

Senior Audioholic
There are lots of different types of distortion that can add up to 0.1%. Some will sound bad and some will sound good (e.g. tubes). And the spec'd distortion is always for a sine wave. The distortion that occurs during playback of music can be much worse and therefore more audible.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Well I did it, I pulled the trigger and just ordered the NAD T955.

Though the Emotiva is very tempting, I decided to go with a company with a solid track record of good products as reviewed by mostly unbias magazine and web reviewers.

I am sure the Emotiva is an excellent amp but I just knew if I bought it I would always be wondering if the NAD would sound better. Plus I have heard the NAD and really liked it.

I will post here in a few weeks what I think of the new amp.
I think you made the right decision.

There's nothing wrong with Emotiva, but NAD is just more prestigeous and I think NAD looks a lot better.:D
 
A

Affejunge

Audioholic
I think you made the right decision.

There's nothing wrong with Emotiva, but NAD is just more prestigeous and I think NAD looks a lot better.:D
Thank you for your support! I was feeling lonely here! lol

Haha, not sure I care *that* much about looks, but at the bottom of my list for reasons to get NAD was the depth of the amp. 15 1/8" vs 19"! The Emotiva would have stuck out about 2.5 off my shelf!
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Well I did it, I pulled the trigger and just ordered the NAD T955.

Though the Emotiva is very tempting, I decided to go with a company with a solid track record of good products as reviewed by mostly unbias magazine and web reviewers.

I am sure the Emotiva is an excellent amp but I just knew if I bought it I would always be wondering if the NAD would sound better. Plus I have heard the NAD and really liked it.

I will post here in a few weeks what I think of the new amp.
Congrats. :) Hope you enjoy it.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Thank you for your support! I was feeling lonely here! lol

Haha, not sure I care *that* much about looks, but at the bottom of my list for reasons to get NAD was the depth of the amp. 15 1/8" vs 19"! The Emotiva would have stuck out about 2.5 off my shelf!
Congrats. I am guessing you will be perfectly happy with it. Personally, I like the understated looks of it:

 
A

Affejunge

Audioholic
Personally, I like the understated looks of it:
As do I..I really did not like the blaring blue lights on the Emotiva. (I know, they can be turned off!) Not a slam on Emotiva, just a preference.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Congrats. I am guessing you will be perfectly happy with it. Personally, I like the understated looks of it:

I always liked the understated look of NAD. Same with my Yamaha RX-V1800..clean uncluttered ..no bling :D
 
B

Barryd

Enthusiast
I am running the T175 pre and the t 975 and am liking them more and more everyday,my speakers are power hogs,polk lsi 15's and lsi 9's,this amp drives them easily @ 140 watts per channel,hope this helps.
 

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