Is Americas Cup going back to the US?

[haraldo]

Hey'ya.....

Any genuine sailing fanatics out there (except for TLS guy, who I know loves sailing )

Anyone following the absolute pinnacle of sailing. Americas Cup is to sailing what Formula One is to car racing, and perhaps even more.

Just noticed that one of the all time US heroes was 100 years, still alive, still kicking.....
http://www.sail-world.com/index.cfm?SEID=0&Nid=43453&SRCID=0&ntid=0&tickeruid=0&tickerCID=0

Olin Stevens, 100 years, designer of no less than 8 Americas Cup winners, that's an achievement probably similar to winning Olympic gold medals in 8 consecutive games...

Me and my brother were constantly monitoring the incredible Americas Cup final last year, unfortunately, the first in history without a US challenger or defender. This event is now so tough that it's probably more difficult to win than the Formula One series.....

I guess somebody has to throw Dennis Conner back into the ring, reckon he's the only one who could bring the Auld Mug back to NYYC or SDYC.....

There must be some opinions on this out there

Cheers

Harald N

 

[stratman]

I use to follow the Whitbread and the Am Cup years back, we use to meet up with the Whitbread ships years ago when South Florida was part of the leg, I have no clue who's where, what or when.

 

[AverageJoe]

I guess somebody has to throw Dennis Conner back into the ring, reckon he's the only one who could bring the Auld Mug back to NYYC or SDYC.....

Well, with a multi-hull maybe.

I long for the good old days (OK, '60'and '70's), with the main battle for the Cup being waged on the water instead of the courtroom.

USA's loss of the America's Cup in 1983 was disappointing, but what was worse was for me was the win in 1988 by the defender, "Stars and Stripes"... A catamaran?! Ironic, too, because we were cruising the Oregon, California coast in a multi-hull from '69 to '74.

Stephens' 12M designs were the definition of what I thought an America's Cup racer should be (Intrepid was my favorite). Design innovation is part of competition, and Stephens was a master at it, but I'm sentimental enough to prefer a slightly more traditional look for America's Cup competitors than the cats and trimarans we're likely to see in the future (even though I like sailing them myself ).

 

[Tomorrow]

Well, with a multi-hull maybe.

I long for the good old days (OK, '60'and '70's), with the main battle for the Cup being waged on the water instead of the courtroom.

USA's loss of the America's Cup in 1983 was disappointing, but what was worse was for me was the win in 1988 by the defender, "Stars and Stripes"... A catamaran?! Ironic, too, because we were cruising the Oregon, California coast in a multi-hull from '69 to '74.

Stephens' 12M designs were the definition of what I thought an America's Cup racer should be (Intrepid was my favorite). Design innovation is part of competition, and Stephens was a master at it, but I'm sentimental enough to prefer a slightly more traditional look for America's Cup competitors than the cats and trimarans we're likely to see in the future (even though I like sailing them myself ).

Wise comments, my friend. I cannot overstate my abhorance for the direction of America's Cup. At one time it was about the fraternity of sailing and the competition. International prestige and super-huge egos have driven it into the courts and out of bounds on the course.

I'd wish for much stricter design rules, perhaps in line with the racing of other classes where all compete in a singular design. Imagine where the act of sailing is again the principle activity and driver of victory. Nice thought, eh? I can understand unlimited design competition, but A's Cup doesn't have that either.

Connors?? He LOST the cup, too. Besides, he's a prima donna with one of those (undeserved) super-huge egos I mentioned.

Just an old man's 2 cents.

 

[haraldo]

33rd Americas Cup on it's way

Now for those of you really interested in Sailing

First race of Americas cup is scheduled to go today
Boats are waiting on water, ready for racing.... just not enough wind

These are the most extreme boats I ever seen, with mast loads of sth like 240.000 lbs, sail areas like twice the wing area of a Boeing 747

Oracle BMW Racing has taken some 150.000 manhours to build, while Alinghi is not far behind in this sense...

A few days ago Alinghi reached speeds exceeding 20 knots in 5 knots of wind...

Live coverage here: http://www.americascup.com

So now Americas Cup is staying in Switzerland with Alinghi by Societe Nautique de Geneve or being brought back to US by Larry Ellison (Oracle CEO)

Watch this to get a sense of what this is about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNuAWk89Aew&feature=player_embedded#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPef0qbNFWM&feature=fvw

 

[itschris]

Now for those of you really interested in Sailing

First race of Americas cup is scheduled to go today
Boats are waiting on water, ready for racing.... just not enough wind

These are the most extreme boats I ever seen, with mast loads of sth like 240.000 lbs, sail areas like twice the wing area of a Boeing 747

Oracle BMW Racing has taken some 150.000 manhours to build, while Alinghi is not far behind in this sense...

A few days ago Alinghi reached speeds exceeding 20 knots in 5 knots of wind...

Live coverage here: http://www.americascup.com

So now Americas Cup is staying in Switzerland with Alinghi by Societe Nautique de Geneve or being brought back to US by Larry Ellison (Oracle CEO)

Watch this to get a sense of what this is about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNuAWk89Aew&feature=player_embedded#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPef0qbNFWM&feature=fvw

I don't follow it as closely as I'd like to but I do get up in it as the race goes on and you can start seeing it on TV. The beginning of each race... fighting for the line is still one of the most exciting specticals in sport I think.

 

[haraldo]

No racing today, due to unstable wind conditions

This is gonna be a match racing that's incredible due to the extreme boats going so fast, normal match racing rules cease to exist and I don't think anyone knows what's really going to happen in the first pre-start maneovers....

Just looking at specs of BMW Oracle racing proves sth very extraordinary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYgtwKY6Xgs&feature=related

A 100 ft Trimaran
Mast height: 185 feet
Gennaker sail area: 8400 sq feet
There is 26.000 data points collected for every second of sailing
Mast load compares to weight of 50 SUV's on the area of a tennis ball

Youtube wideos showing these boats going in excess of 20 knots upwind in 12 knots true wind speed

Just watching the first start, will be sth none ever seen before......
Noone has ever seen match racing like what will be between the Oracle Trimaran and Alinghi Cat

 

[highfigh]

No racing today, due to unstable wind conditions

This is gonna be a match racing that's incredible due to the extreme boats going so fast, normal match racing rules cease to exist and I don't think anyone knows what's really going to happen in the first pre-start maneovers....

Just looking at specs of BMW Oracle racing proves sth very extraordinary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYgtwKY6Xgs&feature=related

A 100 ft Trimaran
Mast height: 185 feet
Gennaker sail area: 8400 sq feet
There is 26.000 data points collected for every second of sailing
Mast load compares to weight of 50 SUV's on the area of a tennis ball

Youtube wideos showing these boats going in excess of 20 knots upwind in 12 knots true wind speed

Just watching the first start, will be sth none ever seen before......
Noone has ever seen match racing like what will be between the Oracle Trimaran and Alinghi Cat

Sounds like you're involved in sailing- have you ever seen a dark blue sailboat, about 73' long, with HiFi on the transom?

 

[haraldo]

I'm very dedicated to sailing

Sounds like you're involved in sailing- have you ever seen a dark blue sailboat, about 73' long, with HiFi on the transom?

No, But I would like to

Now this time I believe they've been to NY Supreme cours about 8 times, very disappointing that the decisions are so much going into the courtrooms and not in the water.

The reason for the 88 catamaran was not because of Conner, but the Kiwis that challenged him with a giant monohull, they had to respond by defending somehow... Conner may be a primadonna, and someone who is impossible to like, but he's still the only one who has ever lost the cup and then regained it...

Just hope there will be vcery good sailing now guys

 

[highfigh]

I'm very dedicated to sailing

No, But I would like to

Now this time I believe they've been to NY Supreme cours about 8 times, very disappointing that the decisions are so much going into the courtrooms and not in the water.

The reason for the 88 catamaran was not because of Conner, but the Kiwis that challenged him with a giant monohull, they had to respond by defending somehow... Conner may be a primadonna, and someone who is impossible to like, but he's still the only one who has ever lost the cup and then regained it...

Just hope there will be vcery good sailing now guys

You mean lost and regained it in consecutive Cups? Was that when Buddy Melges was coaching the team for Koch in the late '80s/early '90s? I met him at their Melges Boat Works when I was doing some car and boat audio work for one of his sons.

The boat I asked about (HiFi) was on the cover of a sailing magazine I read when I flew home from a wedding in California. I saw the cover and one of the people on deck looked familiar, so I picked it up to read. In the article, they had more/larger photos and it turns out I do know the person on deck and had met the owner. He's the 'JA' in Jamo speakers and the one I know on the deck was the head of their US operations.

 

[haraldo]

Ah yeah, Buddy Melges, quite a guy, I believe

 

[haraldo]

You mean lost and regained it in consecutive Cups? Was that when Buddy Melges was coaching the team for Koch in the late '80s/early '90s? I met him at their Melges Boat Works when I was doing some car and boat audio work for one of his sons.

The boat I asked about (HiFi) was on the cover of a sailing magazine I read when I flew home from a wedding in California. I saw the cover and one of the people on deck looked familiar, so I picked it up to read. In the article, they had more/larger photos and it turns out I do know the person on deck and had met the owner. He's the 'JA' in Jamo speakers and the one I know on the deck was the head of their US operations.

There's actually a huge "brick" of a book from the Koch campaign, called "To the third power" with lots of backstage stuff about what was going on.... it's like 40 lbs and so big it's impossible to carry it with you anywhere.... there are absolutely great pictures and good reading... Very recommended

This is a "must read" for anyone even slightly interested in Americas Cup

 

[itschris]

I'm very dedicated to sailing



No, But I would like to

Now this time I believe they've been to NY Supreme cours about 8 times, very disappointing that the decisions are so much going into the courtrooms and not in the water.

The reason for the 88 catamaran was not because of Conner, but the Kiwis that challenged him with a giant monohull, they had to respond by defending somehow... Conner may be a primadonna, and someone who is impossible to like, but he's still the only one who has ever lost the cup and then regained it...

Just hope there will be vcery good sailing now guys

I remember that. The Kiwis thought they were so smart bringing that huge boat to the race. Conner just trumped them at their own game. It's sad when someone who essentially tries to cheat, get's out-cheated, the cries that they were cheated against. The spirit of the cup was lost during that time. It wasn't enjoyable to watch. I always thought of it as a regal sport of sportsmanship, not trying to liberally interprete the rules and circumvent the spirit of what they intended.

 

[haraldo]

I remember that. The Kiwis thought they were so smart bringing that huge boat to the race. Conner just trumped them at their own game. It's sad when someone who essentially tries to cheat, get's out-cheated, the cries that they were cheated against. The spirit of the cup was lost during that time. It wasn't enjoyable to watch. I always thought of it as a regal sport of sportsmanship, not trying to liberally interprete the rules and circumvent the spirit of what they intended.

The kiwi's wanted to say... thx for last time, they had Conner down and counting in Fremantle in 87, but somehow they gave him an oppurtunity, and when Conner gets even a slight opening he will fight back hard.... Kiwi's had the spot for the Americas Cup match, but Conner came back and crunched them in the Luis Vuitton cup, we know how this ended....

The mistake Kiwis'd did was that they didn't go for "the kill" when they had an oportunity.... big mistake for them and that gave Conner the chance he needed to win the Americas Cup......

So 88 was perhaps n effort to get over this

 

[haraldo]

When the biggest shock about these boats has gone away, I honestly believe this is a step away from what sailing and match racing is about, and we're now stepping away from what's always been the heart and idea about Americas Cup.

Proper match racing is about using the sailing rules to the absolute maximum extent and to try to make the opponent make a mistake and force him into a penalty. So for true honest match racing you need to have as identical boats as possible, then we talk about real racing.

These boats are going so fast and are so unequal in performance characteristics that it's not gonna be anything like a match race, more like a speed drag-race, who can make the fastest boat to go as quickly as possible on a 20 nautical mile beat..... what the h.... a 20 nautical mile beat on a match-racing circuit!!!!

I always thought match racing was about close fights on short circuits

What's happening now in Valencia is very very interesting, but it has nothing to do with match racing and what's Americas Cup really about, I think

 

[haraldo]

Well, The Americas Cup is now.... The Americas Cup