How many amps?

[TLS Guy]

Oh yeah, one thing that I haven't seen, but would love to, is what I think might be the first surround sound works ever. . . by Gesualdo, IIRC, during the Renaissance. Cathedrals are shaped like a cross, and so the distances differed at each end. He wrote works for 4 choirs, each choir at each end, and wrote with the delays in mind when writing.

I've also read the Glenn Gould Reader (collection of all his published writings), and he talked about wanting to record a 4 voice fugue on 4 mono tracks, then play them on 4 speakers, one on each side, and sit in the middle to listen to them. He never had yet done that according to what he wrote in the book.

Yes, I'm sure there is a lot more out there that you and I don't know about or have forgotten about. There is also a lot that could be written with artistic integrity. This whole concept of surrounds and rears being pip squeak speakers is highly limiting in my view, not only for music but probably more especially for movirs. I have a Chinese Movie with subtitles that really makes use of the surrounds. That must go for nothing on most systems.

The movie La Vie En Rose, makes huge demands on the surrounds. There are some wonderful effects such as sound coming from an open window at the side. It is so realistic it is uncanny. It really sounds distant just like sound from an open window. I bet that effect is entirely lost on most systems. But that movie was not mixed in Hollywood and Lucas labs had nothing to do with it, and it shows.

If you are going to do a good job of surround sound and make it realize its potential, all speakers have to be really capable and excellent. That is why I designed my rig the way I did.

On good multichannel media the results are amazing and a huge improvement over standard stereo.

The three channel Mercury living presence recordings from the fifties are a revelation, and the four channel recordings from the Philips archive now issued on Pinnacle are an even bigger revelation. However they won't impress with just good fronts. Every speaker has to have the full enchilada.

For SACD that means fronts and rears as the surrounds are silent.

 

[JerryLove]

I think the tradition of second tier surrounds is solidly from theater. Surrounds can be very important, and can often carry considerable audio, but are *usually* used such that FR non-fedility will not be as noticeable.

Since (quadraphonic not withstanding) music is *traditionally* recorded in stereo (2-channel), surrounds are primarily ignored except as sound re-enforcement.

Obviously there is a lot that can be done with surrounds, and at least some people doing it. Since my surrounds are Paradigm Signature S2's, I'm looking forward to popping the SACD in my PS3 and listening in surround.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks to him I may buy that one just for fun but I probably will only listen to it once. I have been to quite a few live classical concerts and I do not recall even once hearing much from behind me. That SACD can't possibly sound right to any live concert goer.

Me neither but, if the drums are all around the perimeter, I guess anything above 80Hz could be very directional. But, this/these recording methods are very rare. so I would question the need. I would try it but don't have SACD capability. Perhaps a PCM off of it would work?

 

[mtrycrafts]

.
There is nothing rare or unusual about antiphonal music. Benjamin Britten's great score the War Requiem calls for a boys chorus at the back of the hall for instance.

The Italian Baroque masters placed musicians and choral groups all over the place. A very large number of Italian churches and cathedrals have antiphonal organs. There are a lot of Italian works for antiphonal organs.

The Basilica in St Paul has two large organs, one behind the alter at the front and one in the choir loft at the back.

....

But, are they also recorded as such?

 

[bandphan]

Generally, Martin Logan and other ESL speakers are rather low in efficiency, and generally have an impedance in the 4-5 Ohm nominal range.

-Chris

FWIW None of the speakers in the Martin Logan's ESL Line is less than 90db @1w1m.

 

[son-yah-tive]

The line between practicality/performance will vary from person to person. I don't have the salary to support buying amps from big name companies like Anthem, Bryston ect.(I wish I did), which is why I went with Emotiva amps. The decision to move to a separate amp/amps depends on a number of factors for most people. Things to consider are speaker sensitivity, room size and volume you listen at. I'm sure there are a few people around the boards who run an separate amp for each speaker. I can't justify the cost and don't have the space to do that.

As to whether or not you should get an amp, you'll have to gather some input and decide for yourself. I personally like to listen at fairly loud volumes and like to have the extra power available if I need it. The ideal situation for you would be to find someone who is willing to bring an amp to your place to try with your speakers. Then you could decide for yourself if adding an amp is worthwhile. I fall into the more power is better camp. Many others feel it is a waste unless you have a large room, low sensitivity speakers and like to crank the volume.

I couldn't say it any better. There are many of us out there who have the DREAMS of great sound, but the NIGHTMARE of them not coming true. That is until Emotiva. Now, after 30 years, I can say that DREAM is now a REALITY! I ordered the XPA-5 for 699.00 and the UMC-1 Processor(on a waiting list), also for 699.00. If you call Emotiva ask for VINCENT, the TECH, he makes you feel right at home, even when answering DUMB questions. I say 'DUMB' questions because, when I stepped up to the higher end of the audio chain, I found out I didn't know as much as I thought I did. Of course, Amazon.com was a BIG HELP with the Definitive Mythos 2s for 199.00 ea!!(Silver) Not the 549.00 ea retail. Bought 5 for only 995.00. And Newegg.com came thru with the Polk Micro 1000 sub.(don't let it's SIZE fool you)for 349.00, down from it's 900.00 retail. And now,...with Emotiva,....well, you do the math.

 

[TLS Guy]

But, are they also recorded as such?

Yes, this recording of the War Requiem, has the boys choir placed firmly in the rear.

I did find one SACD of Italian antiphonal music on a quick search.

One thing I did notice is that music only Blue Ray discs are starting to appear.

AES are making a big push for BD to be the new music hard copy medium, replacing all other formats. In Europe I know this approach is starting to gain traction, where SACD is starting to be regarded as an obsolete format.

My guess is that much more use if going to be made of the potential that surround sound offers on all fronts.

I guess I will have to get into Blue Ray.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yes, this recording of the War Requiem, has the boys choir placed firmly in the rear.

I did find one SACD of Italian antiphonal music on a quick search.

One thing I did notice is that music only Blue Ray discs are starting to appear.

AES are making a big push for BD to be the new music hard copy medium, replacing all other formats. In Europe I know this approach is starting to gain traction, where SACD is starting to be regarded as an obsolete format.

My guess is that much more use if going to be made of the potential that surround sound offers on all fronts.

I guess I will have to get into Blue Ray.

I guess I will have to wait for the BD releases of these
That Italian work doesn't say multi as does the others and is a later release, 09 vs 08. Boy, it can get expensive too, close to $40.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I just remembered that I have a DVD put out by Delos, DVD Spectacular, 1997, that has a choral presentation of the 1812 Overture with the choir on the back channels. Pretty interesting.

 

[TLS Guy]

I guess I will have to wait for the BD releases of these
That Italian work doesn't say multi as does the others and is a later release, 09 vs 08. Boy, it can get expensive too, close to $40.

I'm taking the liberty of resurrecting this thread, as I have had this disc in my possession for several weeks now.

It is a great disc recorded in a Church in Switzerland, that has antiphonal organs front and back. There are four brass choirs. The disc has music worth exploring and beautifully played. The performances are lively. The recording is as smooth as silk, and really captures the space and ambiance. The rear organ seems to have a fuller bass. On this disc bass does seem directional, and my big rear lines really come through.

If you have a capable surround system, this disc is a very good and delightful show case for it.