So, it seems that unions will be exempt from the health tax.

[markw]

"The 40 percent excise tax on what have come to be called "Cadillac" health-care plans would exempt collective-bargaining contracts covering government employees and other union members until Jan. 1, 2018.

The sweetheart deal, hammered out behind closed doors, will save union employees at least $60 billion over the years involved, while others won't be as lucky -- they'll have to cough up almost $90 billion"

So, if you work hard so your company provides a good health plan, you'll be paying out the arse so these guys don't.


Here's another article on this proverbial barnyard servicing.

As we say here in Jersey, BOHICA.

 

[bandphan]

All I can say is.... Come on Massachusetts

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

It won't stick....... The democrats will be kicked out of power soon and all this marxist BS will be reversed.

It may not even pass.........if the dems lose the MASS seat. Just the fact that it's even a close race, you know they will be hurting bigtime next november.

The dems have been in control for only 1yr.....and they try to completely destroy the country. The clock is ticking and their time is running out.

 

[tcarcio]

Well being from Mass I am hopeing Scott Brown can pull it off and stop the madness. As far as the deal the union is getting, this is just the dems paying them back for endorsing Obama.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

I loved browns response during the debate when the moderator referred to the seat as "Kennedy's Seat".

That was awesome!!......on Browns part to respond as he did.

 

[Ares]

I just shake my head and laugh.

 

[bandphan]

All I can say is.... Come on Massachusetts

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aPg2UfFaCh9c&pos=9

forgot http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aPg2UfFaCh9c&pos=9

 

[tcarcio]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aPg2UfFaCh9c&pos=9

forgot http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aPg2UfFaCh9c&pos=9

Dillusional comes to mind.........

 

[NicolasKL]

I don't particularly like this but pretending it's entirely about kissing up and securing votes is not correct. If you're non-union and your benefits are barely over the tax it really shouldn't be a big deal to get your benefits adjusted so that you're just under the tax.

If you're a member of a union and you're just over the tax (which a lot of union members will be, as many have typically foregone salary increases in order to secure better benefits), it just isn't that simple, everything will have to be renegotiated which will take time. I do think they can do better than 8 years though.

 

[markw]

Unions or not, health plans are part of the employee's overall compensation package.

No one group should be exempt from taxation on that part of their compensation package simply because they have a bunch of thugs negotiating for them. It's either everyone is taxed on them or no-one should be.

...and I used to be a steelworker.

 

[NicolasKL]

...and I used to be a steelworker.

And you probably made a decent amount of money doing it. Teachers and child abuse investigators and millions of other union employees don't make hardly anything, and they can't be expected to pay a 40% benefit tax, and expecting millions of contracts to be renegotiated overnight isn't realistic either.

 

[markw]

And you probably made a decent amount of money doing it. Teachers and child abuse investigators and millions of other union employees don't make hardly anything, and they can't be expected to pay a 40% benefit tax, and expecting millions of contracts to be renegotiated overnight isn't realistic either.

I don't know about you but where I am teachers do quite well.

You'll note I used to be steelworker. Our loving union's senior members forced so many demands on the company that the company slowly phased out and closed up our, and many other, plants in the US in the early 80's. Of course, the young guys could see the handwriting on the wall, but none of the old-timers listened.

Of course, now that the government has the UAW unions working for them I guess it's a different story.

No, if one group of people has to pay taxes on a benefit, everyone should. If they tax one person's benefits, they should tax 'em all.

 

[NicolasKL]

I don't know about you but where I am teachers do quite well.

You certainly realize that that is not the case everywhere though, correct? The average teacher salary in ND is 34 grand. That's probably a starting wage of, what, 20k? I certainly wouldn't call that "quite well" even considering the cost of living there.

No, if one group of people has to pay taxes on a benefit, everyone should. If they tax one person's benefits, they should tax 'em all.

What about the group of people that make 20 grand a year versus the group of people that make a million a year? Do you think they should pay the same amount of taxes?

And again, this isn't planned as a permanent solution, it's just acknowledging that with unions it's going to take time to sort out the wage vs. benefits disparity that many of them have. I agree that they shouldn't be permanently exempt, and I think 7 or 8 years is too long a time to get everything sorted out where it's feasible for them to pay the tax, but I don't see a problem with a temporary exemption of 2 years or so.

 

[Rickster71]

You certainly realize that that is not the case everywhere though, correct? The average teacher salary in ND is 34 grand. That's probably a starting wage of, what, 20k? I certainly wouldn't call that "quite well" even considering the cost of living there.

First point:
The Unions got a deal other Americans didn't even get a chance to negotiate for.
This is typical political pandering to a special inters group. All politicians do it. Obama promised he was different.
What happened to "Change?"
It's payback; because without the unions he wouldn't be president.

Second:
President Obama said the Health Care debates / negotiations would be public and televised on CSPAN.
They have not been, and that promise was broken. This was a 'back room' deal with the unions.


To make an apples to apples comparison, teachers don't work all year.
Here in NJ teachers work 180 days a year, with summers off. That's not a bad gig.

So to make a fair comparison, you would have to use 9 months worth of pay for an average worker and compare that to the teacher's 9 months.

My next door neighbor teaches math and makes $55K not counting benefits. My brother in law makes $85K teaching English.
Not bad for 180 days a year with summers off.

 

[markw]

You certainly realize that that is not the case everywhere though, correct? The average teacher salary in ND is 34 grand. That's probably a starting wage of, what, 20k? I certainly wouldn't call that "quite well" even considering the cost of living there.[/quote]I think Rick covered this fairly well, don't you?

What about the group of people that make 20 grand a year versus the group of people that make a million a year? Do you think they should pay the same amount of taxes?

They do when it comes to alcohol, tobacco, sales tax, etc... Why should this be any different? Because they belong to a union? Nah!

And again, this isn't planned as a permanent solution, it's just acknowledging that with unions it's going to take time to sort out the wage vs. benefits disparity that many of them have. I agree that they shouldn't be permanently exempt, and I think 7 or 8 years is too long a time to get everything sorted out where it's feasible for them to pay the tax, but I don't see a problem with a temporary exemption of 2 years or so.

You're hemming and hawing here. You either believe union/government workers should pay what everyone else does, or you don't.

There is no wage/benefits disparity here. The costs of HC plans are figured into everyone's "compensation package", whether they are union or not.

 

[Alex2507]

Don't be hatin' !!!

 

[Jed M]

I will say upfront I am all for health care reform, but this bill in its current state is the biggest sham ever pulled on the American public. Just another bailout to the insurance companies and unions. Every American should be ashamed that this is the best we can do. Doing nothing is literally better than this cr&p! Since my dad is not part of a union, has heart issues, and is not old enough for medicare he will be taxed into bankruptcy under this new plan that attacks his "cadillac, aka I have health problems therefore my insurance costs a junkload to begin with, not that I want a Cadillac plan but am forced to buy one" plan. What a freaking joke. I have never seen a more pathetic, weaker party than the current crop of Democrats.

 

[Stereodude]

It's no bailout. It's a means for the Federal Gov't to control every aspect of your life under the guise of controlling health care costs.

 

[Stereodude]

Teachers and child abuse investigators and millions of other union employees don't make hardly anything, and they can't be expected to pay a 40% benefit tax, and expecting millions of contracts to be renegotiated overnight isn't realistic either.

So, what about the tens of millions of other people who also "don't make hardly anything" (on a similar or even lower level to those teacher and child abuse investigators) who aren't exempted from the bill? They're going to have to pay even more to make up for the money that the unions members won't be paying. That's somehow fair?

Myself, I'm just going to declare my religion as Amish and exempt myself from the legislation.

 

[oppman99]

To make an apples to apples comparison, teachers don't work all year.
Here in NJ teachers work 180 days a year, with summers off. That's not a bad gig.

So to make a fair comparison, you would have to use 9 months worth of pay for an average worker and compare that to the teacher's 9 months.

My next door neighbor teaches math and makes $55K not counting benefits. My brother in law makes $85K teaching English.
Not bad for 180 days a year with summers off.

Yes, if teachers only worked 180 days a year, you would be correct. Factor in the time spent outside of the "normal" workday grading and preparing lesson plans and you'll find many teachers work more than 180 days a year. Also, many of us supervise clubs and activities without additional compensation. In addition, we have to continue taking college courses to maintain our certification. Summers off is a myth. In ten years of teaching, I have only had one summer "off" and that was due to having knee surgery. If you look at salaries for comparable levels of education, then starting wages for teachers are about 40% less than other professions. We don't get personal days either. If I need to attend a wedding or family function and require a day away from work, it comes out of my paycheck. Yes, I make a fair living but I'm far from overpaid. The insurance benefits are compensation for lower pay. Here in Wisconsin, teacher salaries have been held down for years due to a law that states a 3.8% increase in salary/benefits is the minimum. Most times it is also the limit. If you look at the private sector, you will see this is lagging. It barely keeps up with the cost of living increases. Please get all the information before making snap judgements.