Where are all you experts now?

[Alex2507]

It's cool if I say it facetiously for the amusement of the regulars who know that I would never claim to be an expert on much outside of ball licking cats.

Uhmmm ... that is NOT a reference to lsiberian. Adam can vouch for me on this one.
I just realized how it looked and don't want anybody getting the wrong idea.

For the sake of staying a little bit on topic I'll say that I was PM'ed by a member urging me to give this stuff a look see at some site he linked. The reviewer really like the product but what got me was that he also had a review of a power wire. I was immediately in fear of walking away stupider than when I got there.

 

[BioLinksAudio]

The only good thing about you website is.. and not the lil speaker

LMAO

I assume you didn't like the sound, or you assumed you wouldn't, huh?
http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-i-Elegance-Music-System-Players/product-reviews/B0024NL3O8/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

 

[lsiberian]

I think you are barking up the wrong tree with this type of product trying to convince speaker builders. For the run of the mill consumer I'm sure it works well and given the price it seems to be a pretty good deal. I'm sure it's much better than a lot of the HTIB packages out there. It's definitely better than Bose and the speakers probably do their job very well. Still I don't think it's going to improve my system or TLS Guy's. You have to remember we build our own speakers and so our expectations for performance are much higher than your average consumer.

I wasn't really ignoring it's just that I'm a very busy man these days. Work, School, and Wife take up a lot of my time.

I think we all know Alex was talking about Dave.

Also realize this forum is full of comedians and guys trying to have a good time. So don't take stuff too personally.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I assume you didn't like the sound, or you assumed you wouldn't, huh?
http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-i-Elegance-Music-System-Players/product-reviews/B0024NL3O8/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Wow, the first reviewer (of two) is from "Middle Georgia" also.

 

[BioLinksAudio]

Blastphemy... stone the heretic! The T/S disciples are digging themselves into a hole

I have looked at your sparse data. I have not had time until this afternoon to do some calculations.

You T/S parameters are incomplete. The power handling and xmax are not stated. You did not give an adequate sensitivity spec nor provide the inductance of the voice coil.

As far as the 1 cu.ft box with an 11" port I did confirm that the driver would have an F3 of 41 Hz if the port was 2.7" in diameter. Since you did not provide the complete specs I could not calculate spl of vent velocity. The impedance peaks are appropriate to the tuning.

As far as you ETL you have provided no details as to why this is a TL. You have provided no theory of operation.

On the graphs there is now basically one peak of impedance pushed to 120 Hz. The roll off is now second order, instead of fourth. However the roll off is still around 40 Hz. I have to regard that frequency response graph with a high degree of scepticism. In fact for now I'm going to regard the frequency response graph as bogus pending further details from you from which I can make calculations that would show what you claim is even plausible.

Certainly your enclosure is far too small to contain any TL that would load a 10" driver.

Another issue is that you did not state the Qt of your "embedded TL" system. This is a significant issue, as you claim your device reduces the effect of room resonances. Therefore this would imply the design is very low Qt, but again you provided no data. I suspect from the impedance curve that this device actually starts to roll off somewhere above 100 Hz and has inadequate spl to excite the resonances at the frequencies where these usually occur.

You can start all the thread you want, but pending further extensive data, I regard your claims as unproven and far more likely than not bogus.

Please explain to the forum members the impedance curves we have submitted. Your entire mathematical dissertation ignores the fact that the ETL impedance curve is flat. T/S parameters would show phase response that would pass through zero several times. Please explain, using your TL design theory, how you can obtain a perfectly flat impedance curve over the desired range of the subwoofer. While you‘re at it, also please produce graphs (if you can) on how you can do it better showing impedance and phase plots.

Typically, any subwoofer design can be examined by an impedance curve to determine its function. The ETL aligned sub expresses no anomalies throughout its impedance curve. BTW, you are only concerned about response below 100 Hz with any SW so what’s your point about the "one peak of impedance pushed to 120 Hz" or the roll off in the graph above 100 Hz?

You called our graphs “bogus” yet the Liberty Audiosuite is a very popular professional measuring tool. Are you accusing us of fraud and faking the curves? If that’s where you're coming from then we can make absolutely no case that will convince you.

Also, please don’t make all professional reviewers of our products out as liars. Just aim your ad hominem attacks at me; I have broad shoulders. Are we having fun yet?

 

[bandphan]

I assume you didn't like the sound, or you assumed you wouldn't, huh?
http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-i-Elegance-Music-System-Players/product-reviews/B0024NL3O8/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I wouldnt buy one, just like the model

 

[BioLinksAudio]

Just read the reviews

I think you are barking up the wrong tree with this type of product trying to convince speaker builders. For the run of the mill consumer I'm sure it works well and given the price it seems to be a pretty good deal. I'm sure it's much better than a lot of the HTIB packages out there. It's definitely better than Bose and the speakers probably do their job very well. Still I don't think it's going to improve my system or TLS Guy's. You have to remember we build our own speakers and so our expectations for performance are much higher than your average consumer.

I wasn't really ignoring it's just that I'm a very busy man these days. Work, School, and Wife take up a lot of my time.

I think we all know Alex was talking about Dave.

Also realize this forum is full of comedians and guys trying to have a good time. So don't take stuff too personally.

Yeah, I'm having a blast, trying to convince some of these guys that there is something other than T/S that has been developed, tested and proven by both exhaustive listening tests and measurements.

The high-end audiophiles, both end users and pro reviewers, that have heard the Magellan™ subs all like them, especially their musicality. Nobody that I am aware of ever chose to upgrade to our subs from a Bose or HTIB system; that was never our intended target market. Typically, users have mains by Quad, Avantgarde or Wilson... hardly in the class you mentioned.

Your point about building your own speakers is well intentioned but dismisses the point I'm trying to make, I'm afraid. Like most folks, you obviously really appreciate something that you created yourself. But do you honestly believe that your system cannot be improved?

You're right, of course, I should not take it personal... those ad hominem attacks you referred to. I have generally tried not to lower myself to that level of nastiness.

 

[BioLinksAudio]

Uhmmm ... that is NOT a reference to lsiberian. Adam can vouch for me on this one.
I just realized how it looked and don't want anybody getting the wrong idea.

For the sake of staying a little bit on topic I'll say that I was PM'ed by a member urging me to give this stuff a look see at some site he linked. The reviewer really like the product but what got me was that he also had a review of a power wire. I was immediately in fear of walking away stupider than when I got there.

Which reviewer did that?

 

[JerryLove]

Yeah, I'm having a blast, trying to convince some of these guys that there is something other than T/S that has been developed, tested and proven by both exhaustive listening tests and measurements.

With no peer review or reproduction?

Have you sent your samples off to Audioholics, Stereophile (not the best reviewers, but do put up the graphs), etc? Where can I go see their measurments of the actual performance of some of your products?

[edit] I did look up your previous two references, but one is a post and the other is a "reviewer" from Italy who seems to like everything he listens to, and expouses how multi-thousand dollar cables make signifigant differences [/edit]

The high-end audiophiles, both end users and pro reviewers, that have heard the Magellan™ subs all like them, especially their musicality. Nobody that I am aware of ever chose to upgrade to our subs from a Bose or HTIB system; that was never our intended target market. Typically, users have mains by Quad, Avantgarde or Wilson... hardly in the class you mentioned.

Where did you find all of these audiophiles and pro-reviewers? The former should be on the boards and the latter should have pro-reviews up.

Who are some of the reviewers I can go look at, with a history of reviewing gear I am familiar with, who have reviews of your gear?

Your point about building your own speakers is well intentioned but dismisses the point I'm trying to make, I'm afraid. Like most folks, you obviously really appreciate something that you created yourself. But do you honestly believe that your system cannot be improved?

That response is non-interactive.

 

[jinjuku]

Which reviewer did that?

I haven't read any of what is going on, but I thought AH didn't allow companies to come in and start threads that are basically hawking (sp?) their 'wares'...

 

[JerryLove]

Which reviewer did that?

I don't know who Alex saw, but looking up the two links you provided on another thread: I find that Francesco Bollorino's other major review is for Pear Cables.

 

[adwilk]

Alright, I'll bite.....

I haven't heard the sub in question... let me clarify that.

I have "extensive" experience now with the DAD-1 and TBI's Monitor sporting the ETL technology.

The Dialog Augmentation Device (DAD) comes as advertised. The product wasn't developed for its marketing venture, but it really does work. I hooked it up to my parents HTIB and my brother's entry level theater and the dialog from the respective center channels improved considerably. The largest consumer group doesnt care about measurements and whatnot and just demands the most performance for their money and the DAD can provide that. I'll endorse the upgrade...

Now, on to the monitors...

After having heard the DAD, I was very excited to try the monitors. I was disapointed with the sound out of the box. TBI's service was great and sent me an updated driver that should have improved the sound.

Those monitors aren't gonna pull rank in any listening room of mine, but.... The in room response tells me that the T/S specs can be thrown out when ETL is applied. The driver had significant output below 60hz and using dayton's woofer tester would lead one to believe a drastic roll off would occur around 120. I honestly don't care for the sound of the monitor, but I think the driver's performance was greatly approved by the application of ETL.

 

[skers_54]

I found a CNET review of your iPod dock and they praise the aesthetics more than the sound. In fact, it says significant equalization was needed for the reviewer to enjoy the sound.

http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-player-accessories/sharp-i-elegance-music/4505-6519_7-33617841-2.html?tag=txt;page

The T/S alignment looks superior to the ETL alignment from the FR graphs you provided. Just like Jerry said in the other thread, the T/S graph is smoother, flatter and less variable. Can you explain that?

 

[adwilk]

I haven't read any of what is going on, but I thought AH didn't allow companies to come in and start threads that are basically hawking (sp?) their 'wares'...

To be fair, Biolinksaudio has bought his time here IMO. He has non business related, educational posts. I think we need to see where this goes.

 

[JerryLove]

To be fair, Biolinksaudio has bought his time here IMO. He has non business related, educational posts. I think we need to see where this goes.

Which thread has he posted in that didn't end up hawking his wares? I think he's been in four: this (hawking subs), the sub myths thread (hawking the same), and two about quiet center channels (hawking another product that 100 years of audio (must be because the people who try 30-ft horns, and using plasma as an emitter are too conservative) has missied but he found and is selling).

 

[adwilk]

He's north of 30 posts, and, like I said, I'm curious to see where this goes. It wouldn't kill some of us to become a little open minded. At "Audioholics" we frown on audio snobbyness, but have become that way as a community. As we pursue the truth lets try to not bring pre-conceived biases to every thread.

 

[BioLinksAudio]

Forum rules violated?

I haven't read any of what is going on, but I thought AH didn't allow companies to come in and start threads that are basically hawking (sp?) their 'wares'...

You are absolutely right. Please go to the beginning of the thread "Myths about subwoofers" at http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35455&page=4 and then look at "Barely hear movie characters talking" at http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40263&page=6. The links to my site and reviews were posted by other members long before I referenced our products. Even links to where the TBI products could be had was posted by another member, not by me.

I have successfully conveyed that I am not a spammer and am not selling "snake oil" as I was accused of by TLS Guy. Only to add validity to ETL technology have reviewers been cited by me. Others had cited them before I did.

Obviously, I could be banned from this site for the same reasons that were used by those who flamed me and tried to discredit my reputation, technology and products. Unfortunately, my "reputation" icon has been down graded from 3 green blocks to 3 red ones. Why is that? It seems to be a result of spurious comments by members reading my posts that have not agreed with or understood what I am saying. That is an extremely unfair practice, if true. Especially since no attempt to PM me to discuss any problems that I was allegedly creating with some forum members.

TLS Guy threatened to have me banned if I didn't respond to his technical questions within 48 hours! How outrageous was that? I did respond, but only after some exhaustive tests were conducted by our engineers on a subwoofer with and without ETL alignment.

I have tried to be honest and civil in all of my posts. Some members have been outright slanderous in their responses to my posts and comments about my site. But that doesn't seem to have violated forum rules so, I certainly don't think I have.

 

[JerryLove]

You are absolutely right. Please go to the beginning of the thread "Myths about subwoofers" at http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35455&page=4 and then look at "Barely hear movie characters talking" at http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40263&page=6. The links to my site and reviews were posted by other members long before I referenced our products. Even links to where the TBI products could be had was posted by another member, not by me.

First post or not: every single thread you've ever posted in on Audioholics has included you advocating that people buy what you sell.

I have successfully conveyed that I am not a spammer and am not selling "snake oil" as I was accused of by TLS Guy. Only to add validity to ETL technology have reviewers been cited by me. Others had cited them before I did.

You aren't spamming to be sure. The validity of your claims is at best unestablished.

Obviously, I could be banned from this site for the same reasons that were used by those who flamed me and tried to discredit my reputation, technology and products. Unfortunately, my "reputation" icon has been down graded from 3 green blocks to 3 red ones. Why is that? It seems to be a result of spurious comments by members reading my posts that have not agreed with or understood what I am saying. That is an extremely unfair practice, if true. Especially since no attempt to PM me to discuss any problems that I was allegedly creating with some forum members.

Blah. This thread's title is a sarcastic jab at some rather respected posters... also, as mentioned, you've hawked wares in every thread you've posted on.

But yes, life is unfair.

TLS Guy threatened to have me banned if I didn't respond to his technical questions within 48 hours! How outrageous was that? I did respond, but only after some exhaustive tests were conducted by our engineers on a subwoofer with and without ETL alignment.

You didn't have hundreds of those handy from your development process? That's odd.

I have tried to be honest and civil in all of my posts. Some members have been outright slanderous in their responses to my posts and comments about my site. But that doesn't seem to have violated forum rules so, I certainly don't think I have.

Honestly, you should have left the post you've responded to here alone: or simply put up a "I've been attempting to be helpful on things I am experienced with: not surprisingly, those include things I've developed." or some other 1-2 line "trying to be helpful" that skipped attacking others (even if you feel those attacks are retalitory).

I've been a debater and poster far longer than I've been in audio forums: going back long before the internet came around. Your tactics here are unsound. Given that you are indeed selling something, and given the opposition you face: my recommendation would be to imitate Obama during his campaign, and avoid rhetorts.

But do whatever you like.

 

[JerryLove]

He's north of 30 posts,

Yes, on 4 threads, and selling something on every single thread.

and, like I said, I'm curious to see where this goes.

My curiousity was up at one point and is back down. There have been too many comments that even a layman like myself knows are false premises (room resonance does not signifigantly effect a well-built sub: so countering the effcts of resonance on the sub itself is a non-issue).

It wouldn't kill some of us to become a little open minded. At "Audioholics" we frown on audio snobbyness, but have become that way as a community. As we pursue the truth lets try to not bring pre-conceived biases to every thread.

So if I come out and tell you that banging on a tin can with a rock produces high-quality reproductions of Bach, you would "keep an open mind"? If I then sell that can and rock?

I'm all for open-minded: and I agree that audioholics nay-sayers can be pretty harsh (recall I started my time here by debating strongly against Chris regarding omnipolar sound and fedility), but this poster has been both agressive and mocking in his own right: which does not engender a non-recipricol response.

 

[Seth=L]

The high-end audiophiles, both end users and pro reviewers, that have heard the Magellan™ subs all like them, especially their musicality. Nobody that I am aware of ever chose to upgrade to our subs from a Bose or HTIB system; that was never our intended target market. Typically, users have mains by Quad, Avantgarde or Wilson... hardly in the class you mentioned.

No offense, but I know Wilson is a bad name to throw out in this audio circle. Overweight, overrated crap.